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Thread: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

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    Default LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Sorry for being out of touch for so long. I was busy doing a case study on myself, though I didn't really know it at the time. The "before" picture summary is that the good folks on this forum helped me through a tough time breaking through several long stalls, losing 25 pounds along the way (215 down to 190). I stuck with the plan and posted a success story, which Goddess put up here: I Can't Believe It Has Been A Year!! | LowCarbEating
    So anyway, here is the result of my little case study.

    Both my wife and I have birthdays in late August, 1 week apart. If you can't eat food you love on your birthday.... Also, I had already settled into giving myself 1 day off per week (which I truly believe is vital once you are into LCE long-term). Anyway, I tried to keep smart about it, but really didn't do my normal LCE that entire week. For the next two months though, I was back to normal. But once Halloween came I gave myself a bit more leeway to enjoy the festivities, of which there were many in my circle of friends. I went back to my LCE for a few weeks, then came Thanksgiving, for which I was obliged to eat lots of yummy carbs.

    Then I thought I could go back on-plan until Christmas, but our wedding anniversary is December 3rd, and my wife started making all her wonderful cookies. So I simply decided that since it didn't make sense to stay on-plan with all my really high-fat/lo-carb foods. I'd just "mainstream." (just eat whatever I wanted). I knew I'd gain weight, but since I did it with the full intent of starting back on plan in January, I decided to pay my dollar and take my chances.

    I did my official re-start weigh-in a few days ago and was, ahem, very surprised. I had expected it would be possible for me to have gone back to my original 215, since the body seems to like to gravitate to certain plateaus. I always weigh in after I get up and before I eat or drink anything, for consistency's sake. The number was a new record for me.........221! In 2 months I gained all the weight I had lost it take me 6 months to lose, and an additional 6 pounds to boot.

    Here are the truly significant issues I want to emphasize: 1. Even as I was enjoying the cookies and candies, I was happily looking forward to getting back on plan! 2. I believe that I will be able to get back to my target weight in much less time than before.

    Regarding number one, I read once that esteemed hypnotherapist, Milton Erikson, once told a patient who wanted to lose weight that he would help her, but that she must agree to do one thing first. She had to GAIN 10 more pounds before she was allowed to start trying to lose it. She was mortified, but agreed. On her way to those extra 10 pounds, she began to look forward more and more to the weight-loss plan with a desire she'd never had before. As a result, she was extra motivated when she did start. I felt the same way throughout December as I watched my waist expand.

    About number two, there was a story on the Penn and Teller Show (called Bullshit...fabulous show BTW) about how companies who sell "weight-loss" systems frequently use models in their "before/after" pictures that only gained their weight due to a forced period of sedentary behavior. These are very often high-performance athletes who have been injured or ill for a few months, but whose "normal" state was very lean. So once they get healthy and back into their routine, the weight comes off very quickly because the body seeks its norm.

    I realize it isn't very scientific of me to use the Penn and Teller story as actual evidence, and freely admit I'm taking it on faith that this is true. So in order to test the theory on myself, I'm going to see how quickly I can get back to the 190s, compared to the 6 months it took me in 2007. I'm hoping that the year+ I spent at that weight will have been enough to convince my body that my "norm" is in the 190s.

    To that end, I will post my progress here regularly.

    Goddess, can you let me know if there is a different forum on the LCE site where I should post these results?

    Happy New Year everyone!

    Ken, who is very happy to be back to my LC WOE.

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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    ken, here is fine, the success story area is fine, whatever. we're pretty easygoing here.

    i was interested in reading your story because i know you did some specifically planned offplan eating in your regular program, and it sounds like that expanded in the end of the year. it's definitely not an approach i would recommend for most, but i do know everybody has to find their own vibe. good luck with yours!

    p.s. great to see you back here.
    ~goddess
    LC since 11/15/03
    ~over 100 lbs ago!~

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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Interesting. Kind of helped reinforce my LCE. I gave myself permission for two cracker things because my blood sugar was low (normal for most) and I wanted something crunchy (out of pork rinds) The two turned into 8 to 10 ... I lost count. And I was disappointed about the scale not moving for a few days even though I didn't go off my plan ... Just open that door and I walk right in. I'm too old to yo-yo anymore ... only downward is going to work for me. Good Luck and interesting case study story.

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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Goddess and Mary Lee,

    I wanted to explain my planned off-plan eating every week. I think it's really important not to "forbid" yourself something FOREVER. It takes more discipline than I believe most people have to go cold-turkey on anything they enjoy in life. Psychologically, I think, it is much more appealing to have that one day to look forward to each week, like the break from work you get each week, or any other respite in life.

    Many years ago I was reading an FAQ on the Atkins site. Someone asked, "so does this mean I can't have birthday cake?" The answer was, "No, it doesn't mean that. Of course you should have cake on your birthday if you want to! PUT YOUR FACE DOWN IN IT. Just jump back on plan the next day."

    If this is a WOE, then we should treat it as one. In "real" life (some folks can stay at a healthy weight this way....somehow), healthy folks avoid saturated fats, processed sugars, etc. But that does NOT mean that they won't have a donut on Sunday after church. It just means you do it sparingly.

    I see this as just another example of "moderation in all things." I like that rule as much as the golden one.

    Ken

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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Ken, for some people, eating off plan can cause binge eating. We know it will happen, so we don't even attempt off plan eating regularly. Some of us don't even eat off plan for special occasions, because it can mean a full blown binge that can last for days or weeks. Like the alcoholic who dare not take one drink, we dare not take that one bite or we end up "in the gutter" so to speak, out of control in our eating, gaining back more than we lost.

    I'm glad that some who do low carb have the ability to eat off plan from time to time, but when I do, it can put me in a downward spiral of carbs and more carbs, so I have to abstain.

    Every body is so different. I guess that's what makes life interesting!
    Nita

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    Jam yesterday, jam tomorrow, but never jam today!

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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    QueenMama,

    Yes that is very interesting! I definitely don't want to mislead anyone or cause them to fail in their LCE attempts. We are all different, which is why my father can drink alcohol every day of his life and never suffer a hangover. Whereas I get hung over just sniffing alcohol. He says I'm lucky. I know some people can just quit drinking, or can do it in moderation, while others get addicted.

    For clarity's sake, I'd like to summarize briefly how and why I arrived at my particular plan. My first 6 months were VERY frustrating. I lost 9 pounds in the first 3 weeks, but gained it all back in a 3-day celebration. That shocked me. Once I lost those 9 pounds again, I didn't lose another OUNCE for 8 weeks. Because of this, I was paranoid about eating any carbs at all for awhile. The thought of all the weight coming back in just a day or two "scared me straight."

    It was only after an entire YEAR (during which I settled at 190 - 25 pounds down) that I CAREFULLY added 1 day per week. I monitored my weight every Friday morning. If I had noticed the weight creeping back, I'd have "tightened the belt," but it didn't. And I am lucky enough that taking a little break does not lead to binge eating in my case.

    Do you think it is possible (just a theory) that allowing a short break at regular intervals might stem the likelihood of binge behaviour? If you knew you COULD have a cherry turnover, but not until Sunday, it would seem to me that at least some folks would be comforted enough by that thought to be able to say "no" to carbs at the wrong time. I know this is NOT true for alcoholics, and that there is a physical component to the dependency there. I suppose this may be true for some people and carbs. Speaking only for myself, if I had to work a job 24/7, no weekends off, I'd be more likely to just quit that job, since there would be no hope in sight. But that regular weekend break from work allows us to recharge, get a little taste of relaxation, and continue working longer at that job.

    Wow, as I write this I'm reminded of "bread and circuses." A society that is extreme in its denial of freedom for its citizens has only a short shelf-life before it fails in a catastrophic way, usually in the form of violent revolution. The Romans figured this out, and realized it could still oppress the citizenry by distracting them with entertainment and benefits, so they didn't think their lot was really so bad.

    As odd as this metaphor sounds, I think it relates to our bodies. If you see carbs as "freedom," and a restrictive LCE as oppression, it won't be long before your body just revolts. This is probably true of all diets. But if you make your WOE more palatable (figuratively AND literally) to your body, it may actually enjoy the LCE foods, and see no real benefit in viloent overthrow.

    I know this will never work for some folks. But for others, it may allow them at least some extra time on-plan, which may be the difference between success or failure.

    Jeez, I need to learn brevity don't I?

    Ken
    Who is not a fan of "all-or-nothing" thinking.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    I am like Nita - It takes me quite a bit of induction before the sugar cravings (or as I call it - my sugar demon) calms down and I can truly not be truly craving pure sugar. Trying to explain the difference between wanting sugar and craving it to my hubby was extremely frustrating. If you don't have the addiction, it is really hard to understand.

    I am also one that once I give into a sugary treat - I don't stop. It is a monkey on my back that I lose control of. Have a cookie, have a dozen. and it goes from there.

    so, once I finally manage to get through a week (or so), I'm in good shape. so far, I haven't managed to get that far. but I'm also one who could not have a piece of cake on my birthday. cause then my birthday would not last only a day.
    Mary Kay
    2009 WW - 228 / 197
    2010 WW - 197 / 195

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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Very interesting thinking, Ken.

    For me, eating just one cherry turnover could make me crave more. Sometimes when I have to eat off plan, like when out of town with limited choices, or at a friend's house, I find that after having something higher carbs I want to eat more and more and more. Even eating low carb, I crave more food after eating a high carb food. If I stick completely with low carb, then I can eat in moderation, and not feel hungry, not crave things. And since there is such a variety of low carb foods, so many options, I really don't feel the need to go off plan. Sometimes I stretch my plan, perhaps adding a serving of fruit I might not otherwise eat, but if eat anything carby, like bread, potatoes, rice, sweets, then my entire day is shot, and I'm wanting to eat and eat and eat all day (or night). It's not hunger like your stomach growling because it's empty, it's craving something, thinking about certain foods. So, like the alcoholic, I must pretty much keep away from carbs.

    Consider yourself very fortunate to be able to lose after a gain. I can gain quickly, but it comes off extremely slowly. Chalk that up to aging.

    Great discussion you started, Ken.
    Nita

    QueenMama

    Jam yesterday, jam tomorrow, but never jam today!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Ken, I think you are deluding yourself. If you think "The cherry turnover is something I choose not to eat." rather than "The cherry turnover is something I am forbidden to eat.", then you are in control because it is something you choose to do, not because of some artificial rule imposed on you by some guru that you might want to rebel against. I had lots of things that simply smelling triggered a binge eating response, like warm donuts, or those apple fritters w/cinnamon & sugar. Then there was the fresh baked bread basket at the restaurant that had to be refilled 3 times for me, or the time I ate a Giordano's medium deep dish pizza to win a bet. Not having a sense of being full also compounded my problem. My approach to LCE from the start was to find good tasting recipes that I liked and could incorporate into my meal planning. Finding low carb substitutes that I could use for old favorites also helped. I now realize that I am eating better, than I ever have before and I no longer crave any of those old trigger foods. I do not feel deprived when others are having a cookie or piece of cake. I know that I can make a low carb version if I really want to have it but what I have found is that my tastes changed because I was not periodically reinforcing it with high carb foods and now the foods and smells that riggered carb binges no longer affect me. I can and do make wonderful low carb desserts for special occasions, but desserts are not a regular part of my meals. I actually look forward to my low carb friendly meals. They are not punishment, they are rewards in themselves, not something to be endured. Good luck as you try to find your balance.
    Henry

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    LCE Newbie MaryLee's Avatar
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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Mine is also a health thing. If I have a piece of chocolate cake, I will need to break open a Humalog insulin pen (which then will expire in 30 days) and inject to keep my blood sugar down. I've never had a problem with injecting but I am loving not having to since October 2008. I'm still testing my limits with fruits and vegetables. I know that a small apple without immediate activity like tennis will run my blood sugar up over 200. I can do canned pears and blueberries in moderation without it raising significantly.
    Messing with eating problems, weight problems and diabetes for over 20 years and knowing myself... that one treat wreaks havoc with my health and figure.
    My own experiment involves seeing if I can reverse the diabetes and have something higher in carbs in the future without it raising me up to 200 plus. Right now I know if an apple will do it then cake and turnovers will definately do it.
    As for addictions.... I don't have one to alcohol and I'm pleased about that. I do have a drink now and again (straight -no mixers) and it doesn't raise my blood sugar and doesn't tempt me to go off LCE. As for smokes.... I quit for 17 years ... cold turkey when I was 19. I had one cigarette in 1990 and I've now smoked since then. I know myself. I even say that smoking is for "me." I'm also a coffee addict. 8-16 cups a day... but I am working on that. I actually feel like this WOE is saving me from myself. I could go back to struggling to keep my weight in check - up and down - eating moderately but what pleases my mind and taste buds - and shooting up quick acting insulin all day long.
    I had already watched the processed foods and sugar but never saw any difference in my weight. I thought 186 was it. I looked pretty good. Felt pretty bad. When the weight started dropping off and that wasn't my original goal, it just gave me the push to do this. My cholesterol numbers are normal range for the first time in over 20 years. I don't like meds and would not fill the many prescriptions I was given for cholesterol lower drugs. Now I don't need them.
    I wish I could eat off plan and stay healthy, slim and energetic. I don't have the mindset to be able to look forward to an off day... I know myself and I would struggle to get back on plan. I wish I could.
    My granddaughters birthday was pizza and cake just a month after I started the LCE. I thought about taking a little cake before I even got there.... but when I was there I scraped the toppings off the pizza and ate them and just didn't take a piece of cake. No one knew what I was doing and no one noticed or cared. Just my situation and two cents.
    Last edited by MaryLee; 01-15-2009 at 07:30 AM. Reason: clarification

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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Mary Lee, does eating your fruit with a bit of fat slow down the blood sugar spike? Maybe sliced apples with peanut butter or cream cheese, or even a piece of cheddar with the apple. I have no experience with blood sugar problems, but I've read that the fat will slow the absorption of the sugar from the fruit and not cause the spikes. I'd be interested in your perspective.
    Nita

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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    My own experience is that, yes, fat will slow down the absorption, but it doesn't prevent it. For most folks this is useful. For us diabetic types, who strive for low BGL's, it's not good enough.

    There are very few fruits I eat in any portion larger than a morsel.

    And, MaryLee, there's no evidence that we can "reverse" diabetes - such that certain foods in the normal western diet will be acceptable. There is, however, ample evidence that, by following a consistent low carb lifestyle, we can achieve and maintain normal BGL's.

    Acting on this evidence, I've been doing it for more than ten years. You can, too.
    Maggie
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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Maggie, thanks... I do get encouragement that you've been doing it for more than ten years. I just have this idea in my head that if it grows naturally (like fruits and vegetables) that maybe someday my body will handle it right. Sounds outlandish knowing what we know about diabetes however, with all the diabetic diets and low fat for my high cholesterol I have followed from doctors religiously and still had to take so much insulin, I wonder what else they don't know.
    No one ever suggested I do extreme low carbs. In a month and a half my A1C had dropped into almost normal range and my cholesterol was in normal range... not even a three month test.
    Doctors throughout the last 20 years have told me I must be eating "ice cream and fried chicken." even though I followed the party line on what and when to eat. I look at the recommended diet for diabetics now and each meal is more carbs than I usually have in a day. My goal used to be to keep it under 200 and now I hang around 100 most of the time and go down into the 80's naturally.
    If one medical professional had suggested LCE, I would have tried it. Given the choice of keep gaining weight, take pills then insulin, loose the feeling in my feet and shins or try LCE ... I KNOW I would have given it a try. I also gained back the feeling in the front of my legs and my feet and I was told over 10 years ago that that would never come back. That actually happened when I couldn't eat anything but yogurt during a stressful year 2004/2005 and my A1C went into acceptable range for a diabetic.
    Thanks for the support ... I feel like I can manage things regardless of the diabetes with this WOE.

  14. #14
    LCE Resident gregg's Avatar
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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    Interesting read! I've really enjoyed the posts on this topic.

    The thoughts I have while low carbing is a subject near and dear to my heart. I've ridden the roller coaster quite a bit with over the years and my weight has gone up and down quite a bit.

    I also tell myself when temptation strikes, that I can have this food, just not right now. If I tell myself that I can "never again" enjoy a slice of cake or other such thing, then the thought becomes overwhelming and I begin to feel deprived. Feeling deprived is not a good thing for me beacause I know it will lead to back sliding.

    But the problem I've noticed with this line of thinking is that if I tell myself that I can have this "just not right now," then in order for me to actually believe it, I have to allow myself to enjoy the item in question once in a while or I am just deluding myself.

    Usually this time of 'allowing' happens when I'm at or near goal weight. It is only then that I can justify eating a cookie, donut, or some such thing. By that time, it becomes too easy to rationalize eating more carbs because after all I'm at a good weight for me and I can work in a few carbs from time to time.

    But then the downward spiral begins and before I know it, or rather stop denying it, I've gained weight, the New Year is quickly approaching and the cycle repeats it's self.

    I hope more folks will share their thoughts on what kind of things they tell themselves when they are being good, or even when they aren't being so good.
    "Failure is not an option" ~ me


    01-03-09 213/213/180
    01-11-09 213/205/180
    01-18-09 213/204/180
    01-25-09 213/201/180
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    03-01-09 213/197/180
    03-08-09 213/195/180
    03-22-09 213/194/180
    03-29-09 213/193/180
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    04-13-09 213/193/180
    04-20=09 213/192/180

  15. #15
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    Default Re: LC Case Study With Me As Subject::).

    My mind stayed with me the whole time:

    I'll never get over 200 again.
    I'll refuse get over 210 again.



    Just saying it doesn't help at all - as I blew past all those numbers and almost got back to where I started.

    I need to change this to:
    I have to make a conscious effort never to get over 2xx/1xx again.
    and remind myself of that every single day.

    *now, if I could just get a really good start going....
    Mary Kay
    2009 WW - 228 / 197
    2010 WW - 197 / 195

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