Thread: Help - DM2, long time LC with no loss

I'm sorry this is so frustrating for you. I'm not a doctor, so I wouldn't think to offer advice about meds and diet.

Still, I am interested and curious about your regime. One of the reasons I'm curious is because my sister was diagnosed as a type-2 diabetic within the last year, and I'm trying to get some perspective on what's going on with her. I think she tells me kind of contradictory things about the advice she's says she's gotten from her HMO. She's not on drugs and has lost a fair amount of weight. She probably hasn't been this small since high school and now she's in her mid-fifties. The dietary advice she got (she says) was "just to eat healthy foods". When I'm with her, she eats pretty high carb. So, I wonder if she's really regulated, you know?

Anyway I hope you don't mind a few questions?

Do you monitor your blood glucose? If so, have you done an 18-hour blood glucose curve since you've been on the Lantus? And, if so, what's the curve like and how are your high and low BG levels?

How do you track your carbs?

What would a typical day's menu be?

Do you exercise?

Have you read Dr. Atkins' book, Atkins Diabetes Revolution ? One of LCE's moderators, Maggie, wrote a review of the book, if you are interested: http://www.lowcarbeating.com/bb/showthread.php?t=10541



I know, I know! That's a lot of questions, LOL! And I wouldn't blame you a bit if you don't feel like answering them.

Teelbee - To answer your questions:

Yes, I do monitor my BGs. I do a fasting and one 2 hour PP. I am not familiar with the 18 hour curve, how is that done?

Not sure I know what you mean by how do I "track" my carbs. I count them by using a "net carb" formula, and I rough estimate what I eat by the Corinne Netzer carb counter or the carb counter on the Atkin's site, or if I am using a recipe, say for example from one of Dana Carpender's books, I use the net or usable carb counts from that.

A typical day's menu might be: Breakfast: 1 cup of black tea with a TB of cream, 2 eggs scrambled with sauteed onions, bell pepper and small tomato, possibly with some cheese and sometimes a little bacon or sausage, alternately when in a hurry I might just have a whey protein drink as I'm flying out the door. Lunch: Some tuna with mayo, celery, dill relish and scallions either on a tomato or with some crudites. Snack may be some cheese and mustard or a handful of Tamari almonds, egg salad with celery or celery and peanut or almond butter, or a whey protein drink. Dinner is typically a serving of meat or chicken roasted or grilled and a green salad with leftover broccoli or green beans, parmesan cheese, artichoke hearts, snap peas, radishes, scallions, tomatos, olives, really, whatever veggies are around and I feel like cutting up (I don't use all of these at once, just a few), with a homemade vinaigrette consisting of olive oil, vinegar, garlic, mustard, herbs, salt and pepper. Sometimes I will also have a cooked vegetable with my dinner meal, such as Brussels sprouts or cauliflower. Snack after dinner, if I really am feeling the need, is usually SF jello or some cheese with a little wine, rarely a SF candy such as a Judy's caramel or even rarer still, a bit of Carbsmart ice cream.

I believe I did mention that I do exercise six days a week, 45 minutes on the treadmill and I work with a trainer three days a week with weights. Two days a week I also take a water weights class.

Yes, I have read Dr. Bernstein's book, Dr. Schwarzbein's book, and the new Dr. Atkins Diabetes Revolution book.

Hope that answers your questions. I'm still looking for answers! BTW I am a nurse and have a very clear understanding about diabetes from a biological perspective. Unfortunately I was taught the old calories in/calories out drill and don't understand why the LC WOE works for some and not for me.

Swill

Susan, as a sister nurse, I was taught the same (and incorrect) "calories in calories out" jive. While there's some information to be learned there, it's certainly not an accurate (one to one) equation. Also, from my own and other's experiences, I've got to admit that any of us with blood sugar abnormalities have a harder time with the weight loss end of this business than those who have not progressed to the stage of abnormal lab results.

My own advice to you would to be to totally skip any LC products, in other words, no Judy's or ice cream. Also, look with a bit of care upon things like tomatoes. Next rung, look with suspcicion upon the serving size of artichokes and your whey protein drink. I've seen these things with anything from acceptable carbs to out of sight.

The most important thing that I think you need to do is find an md who understands low carbing. By adding insulin to your medical mix, you are making the absolute most of every blasted carb you take in.

PLEASE, bear in mind that I'm not a dr. My DH is, however, and he's gotten many an insulin type2D off their insuin and oral hypoglycemics, but it requires a real day-to-day partnership between dr & pt to get this to progress optimally.

You are doing almost all the right things! Now you need to start tweeking, under the supervision of a dr and nutritionist who really understand the low carb nutritional approach.

Think about this: Assuming your meals are under 10 gms. That's thirty net carbs. Add in a couple of snacks and you may be up to 50. More than the 20 - 50 which would be the range of induction and OWL for someone with blood sugar problems and/or insulin resistance. That range happens to be more than I get in maintenance. Think about that. You might want to try to find an md who really gets it - as in, has had experience getting type2's back on track and off (or almost off) the medical interventions.

HTH

Ah, then it sounds like you are light years ahead of me in your knowledge of diabetes and low carb. My experience with diabetes is with cats, anyway,not humans. In cats, a low carb diet sometimes reverses diabetes, especially steriod-induced diabetes. They can actually go off medication altogether.

Certainly, your diet looks optimal, assuming portions are reasonable, which I presume is the case. I don't see much opportunity for hidden carbs - unless you use a lot of a sweet basalmic vinegar in your vinaigrette. Perhaps using a food and exercise tracking program may reveal something. There's a free online food tracker at www.Fitday.com. I prefer to use a locally installed program called DietPower as it is much faster and I can more easily enter custom foods and recipes.

I know your diabetic counselor didn't have many answers, but perhaps an endocrinologist could shed some light on the lack of weight loss. At least, I would think an endocrinologist would owe you some answers on that score.

By an 18-hour curve, I just meant to get a BG reading before breakfast, then again every 1 to 2 hours until betdtime. Then, the BG values can be plotted on a grid (like the bg curves shown on the Lily website). With the cats, the peak was usually much later than 2 hours after a meal. And, they supposedly process insulin much faster than humans. So, doing a curve helped to show if the bg was dropping too low 4 to 8 hours after eating from too much insulin or insufficient food. Curves could also reveal if there was rebound going on. It seemed common for cats to rebound a lot, even chronically. So, an all day BG curve might reveal more than pre- and post-prandial readings alone.

I know very little about this, but my husband is type II, but he also has a thyroid problem and takes Synthyroid. Have you had your thyroid checked? I also think Maggie makes an excellent suggestion about total carbs. Perhaps your carb level is too high. Do you know if you are in Ketosis? . . . just giving my two cents.

I know virtually nothing about Diabetes except from what I've read. ( I have no personal experience with it.) I agree, the sugar alcohol products might be doing you in. Some people, probably ones with severe blood sugar problems, seem to react to the alcohols as if they were REAL sugar.

You might want to give GREEN TEA a try. I am getting wonderful results with it. We have a green tea challenge going, you might want to join. Here's a link to it: Green Tea Challenge It can't hurt!!!!!

I am of the mindset also that you need to get with a doctor that approves LC and knows a lot about it. Seeing an endocronologist is not a bad idea also, if you are not already seeing one. I hope we can help you puzzle this out.

I border on diabetes 2 and have for years. Struggled with this way of eating and tried to go off this plan and boy that was just as hard as getting on it as I felt terrible. They have found thyroid stuff with me recently so maybe that will help to get the weight off.


Just sharing my experience and dropping in to say thanks, because the advice on this thread looks like it will be very helpful in my case. I am still reading Dr. Adkin's book. Even though my doctor said not to I think I need a better understanding of low carbing than I have from her education and what I have read so far.

Levismom, you might want to give Dr. Diana Schwarzbeins books a try and also The Eades' Protein Power books. They are all wonderful references and the authors are doctors. Dr. Schwarzbein is an endocronologist. There is a LOT of info on the internet also about LCing and diabetes. It only makes sense to me for a DM2 sufferer to get their sugar consumption under control. And the thing is, typically doctors aren't educated in nutrition (which I personally think is dumb) and they just don't have a clue how foods affect our bodies. You would think they would banish simple carbohydrates from a diabetes sufferer's diet (and even some complex ones.). The more you educate yourself the better decisions you can make for yourself. Knowledge is POWER. Although, if you educate yourself, your doctor might label you as a "difficult patient", LOL.

My Doctor who is an endocrinologist frequently tells me about the people she has assisted getting off injectable insulin and insulin pumps with a LC way of eating. I don't believe insulin will keep you from loosing. I think the key here is to keep trying and work with your doctor on things. Have you used a carb counter? I haven't gotten that strict and I think naturally I tend to eat toward maintenance carb levels rather than just under. Keep talking and working and posting and eventually something will click for you and the weight will come off.

I know I feel better and have been healthier than I was when I wasn't eating this way because my lab work shows it.

Hang in there and keep talking, I think the formula for success can be just a bit different for us all and it is a matter of working through to find what works.

Sounds like you two both have AWESOME doctors..........that is WONDERFUL!!!!! I just wonder if eventually the weight loss will finally kick in. It might take awhile. I would think afterwhile the insulin amount could at least be lowered........but what do I know, I'm not a doctor. I suppose you have to get your insulin levels checked on an ongoing basis and have it monitored all the time??????

How's all your other stuff..........cholesterol, blood pressure, triglycerides and all that????

I have good cholesterol and trygliceride numbers so they are only checked every 2 months. They found little lumps on my thyroid which may be causing some problems in the weight loss department for me. Acutally, If I eat the 2 salads per day Adkins recommends I can get my weight to go down. It just doesn't stay down. If I get my veggies in every meal then I feel even better.

I have some shopping habbits to change (buying veggies in small bundles so they don't spoil) and then using what I buy. Adding in some additional exercise has been helpful, just can't seem to work all that in.

LevisMom