This section of the message board is reserved for discussion of my commentary on the Essential Nutriton 'information'.

Excellent response Andrea. As usual, you have a way to cut through the BS.

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Mary Kay
2009 - 223
Valentines day goal - 214

Bravo! Bravissima! Three cheers! You tell'em, Andrea. I am so tired of the food police telling me what I can and cannot do. I have a mind. I can read. I can make my own decisions.

30 lbs of water. <snort> Yeah, right.

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Jonalyn

LC since June 03
220/189.25/145ish

A++ article!

Are these "experts" the same people that had a spokesman on The O'Riley Factor last week? He seriously need to have someone on to refute all the garbage that that woman was spewing out.

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Judy
All time highest = 180, Goal = 140, Current status = RIGHT ON TARGET!
Every single time I put food in my mouth, it matters. No more fooling myself!

I'm so glad you're my friend

Seriously, I hope your article gets some attention!!!

Andrea! This is an awesome article. Thank you so much for taking the time to put together something so complete and well researched.

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Renee
1/19/04
261/220/160
41 lbs off
60 lbs to goal



Race to 199 Challenge
Labor Day Challenge: Focusing on the Journey
Personal Goal: 199 by 12/31/05

You have really outdone yourself, Andrea. WOW!!!

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"Live strong." ~ Lance Armstrong
SLEEP BE DAMNED! GET THY BUTT TO THE GYM!
Start Atkins 9.1.03
225/198/130ish

Thanks, Andrea, for putting it in perspective.

It's obvious to me why the research on low carb puts these people into a tizzy: it refutes everything they have been telling us for years.
Well, all I can say to them is this: admit you were wrong. Admit that with the science we had at the time, it looked like low fat was the way to go. Admit that new findings have broadened our knowledge of how the body works, and what we once thought was true, really is not. The world isn't flat, and leeches will not cure a headache. Get over it. I thought the point was to help people, not be the one with all the marbles at the end of the game.

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Trina

Vice-President of the Intergalactic Order of Brussels Sprouts Haters

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Damn -- & I thought I had a lot of research bookmarked on the benefits of LCE!

Way ta Go, Andrea. Thanks for bringing the Scientific Data & shutting the naysayers up Once & For All!

Honestly -- what is all the hating about? You'd think LCE was tantamount to smoking the way the nutritionists have demonized it. I know the Ramen noodles people & the Goya company can't be missing my business that much!

I really don't believe LCE is harming other businesses -- not when I see so many people in the supermarket getting sucked into buying processed, packaged 'low-carb' crap every week. And now that the cereal companies & soda manufacturers are reformualting their products to contain 70% less sugar (I'm scared to think about how much sugar was in them before!), even folks who aren't eating LCE will gain some of the health benefits.

I certainly don't expect the Nutritionists & Diet Dictocrats (esp. the Vegan faction) to admit they're wrong -- these are people who spent many years in school learning a bunch of lies, so of course, they're going to continue promoting those lies. But it's in our government's best interest to see Americans lose wieght, get their blood sugar under control & get out of the hospitals & doctors offices! Esp. when universal healthcare is NEVER going to be a reality here. So why won't the gov't. reverse the USRDA food pyramid & stop telling people that grains & carbs should make up the majority of their diet? And why won't the gov't tell people that there's a huge health benefit to be gained from eating grassfed meat vs. grain-&-soy fed meat -- instead of telling people "Beef is bad/saturated fats are bad"?

I don't man to sound paranoid, but it seems to me that our gov't wants to make sure as many Americans as possible remain dependent on insulin regulators & stantins, rather than giving the public the nutritional info it needs to become healthy & drug-free. Which sounds like grounds for a lawsuit if you ask me!


- RC

Thank you, Andrea! What a beautifully crafted, and well annotated, piece.

You the (wo)MAN!

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RC, thanks for the pat on the back! You have no idea how much I appreciate the support and encouragement you all give me.

However, if I were capable of "shutting up the naysayers once and for all" I'd be worth my weight in gold! Ain't never going to happen - either in Low Carb or anywhere else.

And TRULY I am not trying to shut anyone up - I just want to bring into the discussion other studies and points of view than PEN brought up.


In fact, I started this thread because I really would like to see some honest and open discussion, even from people who are skeptical of low carb. (As long as everyone upholds the very high standards for behavior and respectfulness we have here!)

I think that by getting the facts out there, it will be of benefit to the whole weight loss community.


Not that I think that there's merit in "all" the opposing arguments.

I mean, clearly the arguments that you can't think on less than 140g of carb intake a day and that you lose mostly water weight are just silly. Every time I wake up, get out of bed, look in the mirror and carry on any kind of (semi) intelligent conversation, I disprove them. And so do many of you.

But there are some topics I'd like to see explored more.

For instance, I'd like to see more discussion of the "snapback" theory PEN talks about; namely, that if you low carb, you gain the weight back more quickly if you stop.

My thought on this is pretty straightforward, I think:

If you do very well on low carb, it means you have issues with carb metabolism. If you have these issues, you are very prone to gaining quickly when you eat carbs.

That is, it's not the fact that you lost weight quickly on low carb that makes you "snap back". The same metabolic process that made low carb work so well for you is what MAY make you gain more quickly when you "fall off the wagon" and go on a carb-fest.

I say MAY because that's not proven in my book. But just for argument's sake.

ideas? thoughts? opinions?

Yeah, Andrea, I think you've hit on something there. I don't think that "snapback" is necessarily a drawback of the woe, as they would have you believe.
I know that I tried every diet out there, with no real success. I know that as soon as I stopped eating too many carbs, I just felt "right". I know that before, I would eat relatively little, certainly less than I eat now, and steadily gained weight. The same thing happens now whenever I eat too many carbs; I gain. The correlation is clear to me, and I know that it is because I have a real sensitivity to carbohydrates. I do not think that this is true of every human on the planet, nor do I think that any other woe is wrong. It's just the way my body works.
I am also of the opinion that if someone were having success on a low fat woe, and started eating high fat foods, they would have that same "snapback" effect happening. It all depends on what each individual reacts to. The best analogy I can think of is my allergy to strawberries; if I eat too many, I get hives. If I control the amount I eat, I'm fine. If I eat too many again, back come the hives with a vengeance. Is it because strawberries are bad? No, it's because too many of them are bad for me.

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Trina

Vice-President of the Intergalactic Order of Brussels Sprouts Haters

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THanks for the input Trina!

Wow. You've summed up my experience with low carbing in just two short sentences.

In the almost 6 years I've been doing this, I have proven (over and over again :() that when I eat carbs -- doesn't matter if it's a lot or a few -- I gain weight (water or otherwise). When I eat lots of veggies and limit protein, and eat no carby foods, I lose rapidly.

Andrea, thank you for your thoughts and comments here. I'm going to go read them again now, more in depth, and ponder the meaning and how it applies to me.

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April

The face of a child can say a lot -- especially the mouth part of the face.

My Blog

Amen, Sister.

That's been my mantra all along with the "low carb" products. I'm just upset when I hear people stating they are "doing low carb", and they want to quit after two weeks because "it doesn't work for me", and they blame the "diet". Well, NO WONDER. When when they don't lose weight after ingesting 4 low carb bars per day -- instead of a real candy bar -- along with low carb pasta, shakes, chips, breads, yadda, yadda, ad nauseam, each day, weight loss won't happen!

The diet isn't to blame. Food choices are to blame.

I could go on and on -- and I have before. But I'll shut up now.

Thanks, Andrea. Once again, you've outdone yourself. I appreciate you.

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April

The face of a child can say a lot -- especially the mouth part of the face.

My Blog