I have 2 kids, Kyle age 8 and Jenna age 5. My son started school at age 4 (b-day is 9/27/95), so he was about to turn 5. Kindergarten was a bit hard the 1st 20 weeks, then he took a complete turn around and excelled the last 20 weeks. He went on to 1st grade, but struggled terribly. It was so hard for me to watch this happen, so we decided to hold him back. He didn't like me very much. It was a good thing, he completed his 2nd try at 1st grade and is now half way through 2nd grade with a 92 average in math and 100 in spelling. I'm so proud of him.

Well....what I mean by, how can this happen twice? My daughter, as I mentioned is 5 (her b-day is 9/29/98), she started kindergarten in 2003 at 4, almost 5. I thought she would excel in school. She loves to color, draw, write and she's not as busy as my son was at that age. My son hated it, so I thought she'd do well. At 20 weeks her teacher says she needs much direction and re-direction, can't remember the letters of the alphabet they've already covered. I'm so disappointed. I feel like it's my fault that she's not doing so well.

I know the schools are pushing the kids hard at the kindergarten level and I'm not sure she can handle the pressure right now. I am seriously considering having her held back. I just can't believe this may happen to her, I can't believe my kids had/have to be held back!

I consider myself fairly intelligent and my husband, well, he has his moments but why does this happen (is there some recessive gene in my family history?) Is it my children's age when they started school, should I have held them back? I'm asking myself now, a little too late, but some of the kids in my daughters class were 6 when they started or turned 6 as soon as school began. Jenna won't be 6 until Sept this year! These kids have a whole year on her.

I just wonder if there are any teachers out there that understand how I'm feeling and if I'm doing the right thing by keeping her back too?

Thanks for listening, I'm sorry this is so long.
Karen

Hello! Education is dear to my heart. I am a teacher. I am also a mother and I understand your stress and concern. Let me start by saying that each child is an individual.

Every child can learn, although perhaps at different rates and in different ways. I know it is tough to hold a child back, but consider a few things.

Your child is young and will make new friends quickly. I strongly believe it is better to hold a child back while young than older.
With your son, the problem is obvious. He was what we call a "young starter". Even though you held him back his age is probably about the same as the other kids in his class. It sounds like he is doing great now.

I'm sure your daughter is fine as well. Yes, you need to take everything the teacher say into consideration. However, look at your daughter objectivly. What do you think? Is she struggling? Sometimes with young children the child will be to shy to share all their knowledge at schoool. Could this be the case? What does your gut tell you? Would she do better if she were held back?

What can you do at home? Read, read, and read! Read to your children every night. Research shows us this has the biggest effect on all aspects of leaning.

I could go on forever, but I want to leave you with one more thought. So often as parents we think that if our children are not perfect than we are bad parents and they are unhappy. However, this is not the case.
A child's progress at school does not repersent good parenting. For example, I have some straight a students whos parents don't know they are alive. I also have some very low special ed students who have very loving parents. Learning difficulties and even diabilities are nothing to be ashamed of. It is better to know about these difficulties so that your child will get the appropriate attention needed.

Sorry for going on and on. It is hard to type all that I am thinking.

Good luck all!!
Seesko




242/232/135

"What my mind can envision; my body can master!"

Well, I may not be of much help to you because we have been homeschooling for the past 4 years, but our oldest did go to school for 2 years (K and 1st) and I *do* think that the age they start school has a lot to do with it.

I'm kind of surprised they let your child start school at age 4... Here they have to be 5 by the time school starts or they have to wait until next year. This is just my humble opinion, but I think 4 is too young to be in a structured, school environment for so many hours... but this is not your fault and you cannot change what is done, so don't beat yourself up about it!

And lest you think I am just an *idealist*, let me just say that I was in daycare at one month and was raised in daycare and public school all of my life. My dh and I never planned on homeschooling; it's something we decided to do after we realized that our daughter was NOT thriving in the school environment. She is 10 now and reads on the 11th grade level and is studying Latin and Spanish (in addition to all the basics). This has been the best decision we have ever made -- even if it did turn our lives upside down, initially.

Whatever you decide to do, Karen, do not stress too much about it... these early years of education are most important in setting the TONE for the rest of their school years... the other stuff doesn't matter. If you need to hold her back, it really won't matter in the long run. Studies show that *older* children tend to do better in their classes later, than those who were started too young and are always the youngest in their classes, anyway.
Even if you have her repeat a grade now, she will still be about the same age as the rest of the kids in her class... After all, because of when my birthday fell, I was not allowed to start K until I was almost 6. I was at the *older end* of the kids in my class, but I certainly did not stand out as the oldest. I was 18 when I graduated, same as MANY in my class.

I hope this all makes some sense and helps a little...
{{{hugs}}}

Summer


www.herstorygirl.com

I'm not a teacher nor do i have any kids, but both my sisters have boys ages 4 and 5. Both should be starting school this next september. The 5 year old was born in October, the 4 year old in July btw. But, from just being around them I can tell that the 5 year old has a big advantage over the 4 year old, even though he's only 9 months older. Your kids were born at that right time of year where its tough to know if they are truely ready to start school. You have to admit, there is a big difference from an almost 5 year old to a six year old. I dont doubt your childrens intelligence, I'm sure they are very smart but it could also be the social setting.
To finish my story, my sister with the 4 year old is considering holding him back even though he will be 5 by september. I personally think it may be the best for him. He's not dumb (he has a computer golf game that I cant even play because its so hard that he wins every time!) he knows his letters and all those things. He just isnt socially ready and sometimes thats why kids might struggle in school even though they do know what is being taught. I know alot of people even my age (22) who's parents held them back from kindergarten. Its really not that far from the norm anymore. So dont be embarrassed if you have to. Its probably best for the child. My bf's parents held his brother and sister back their first year and they went on to be 4.0 students throughout high school and college!
I dont know if the social factor is the case, but I hope my story helped. I just want you to know that you arent the only person struggling with this. Just do what you think is best, because you will probably be right in the end.

"We've Only Just Begun"
- The Carpenters

260lbs 5/00
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Fiesty Red-Head
www.sdsymphony.org

Thank you so much for your responses It means a lot to me to hear your thoughts. You've all made some very important points.

Seesko - you mentioned reading. That's where my kids differ. My son loves to be read to, Jenna, on the other hand it's a struggle. She would much rather play with her dolls, play dress up etc. I tell her that we are going to read at least 1 book, my son would let me read for an hour if I would I appreciate your perspective on this.

Jenna is a young kindergartener for sure - she went to PreK in our school, she was 3 when she started, turned 4 right after. I pleaded with the teacher to let me start her in PreK a year later and they wouldn't let me. State funding regulations (blah blah blah). I told them I felt she wasn't ready but she needed speech therapy (she's still a little dutchy), so I didn't want a year to pass without her receiving services because from the age of 3-5 in our area, if you are above a certain income level and your child needs speech therapy, you can't have it! Pretty much and no offense to anyone, if you are low income, your child can go to preschool and receive speech and occupational therapy, but if you're middle class, like me, my daughter is left out on the sidelines. It's not fair.

So...that's why I decided to send her, ready or not, because she'd be lacking 1 year of speech services that she needs.

Summer! I'm impressed, your daughter reading at an 11th grade level! Wow! I remembered that you homeschooled. You're fortunate that you can. I couldn't do that. It does take a special person to be a teacher. I know Jenna will come out better in the long run if I hold her back. As far as age goes, she probably will be the same age as the others in her class, you're right. Funny thing is, she's very tall and everyone swears she's older than she is I just bought her a new pair of sneakers Saturday, just to give you an idea, her feet grew, in 3 months, from a 13 to a 2!!

Thank you again for your responses, I'll have to let you know what happens. Report cards are coming out Friday, I'm really curious to see Jenna's.

Sorry I have rambled on and on!
Karen

LOL!
Well, I can sympathize!
I am 5'10" and I pretty much hated it until I was an adult, but that's going to happen no matter what you do.

I still remember our first school dance in 7th grade; I was taller than ALL the boys in our class and just sat on the sidelines until it was almost over...
But then a 9th grader asked me to dance.

Summer

Karen - I sent my oldest to kindergarten at 5 (he turned 5 on 8/2/1996). He had the same experience that your son did. So I held him back and had him repeat kindergarten. It was OK. Then, this year (first grade), I moved him from parochial school to public school. This kid has blossomed! I think the best thing I did was hold my son back a year.

I have yet to decide if I will send my youngest to kindergarten in the fall (he turns 5 6/1). Since he has an older brother, I may try it, but if he struggles like Hayden did, I will hold him back.

Somtimes, kids just aren't ready to go to kindergarten at such a young age. That does not mean that there is something wrong with them, or their genes. It just means they aren't ready. I am not a teacher, so I may be going out on a limb here, but it may end up not being a good thing to send a kid to kindergarten too early. Too much, too soon. In my oldest son's case, he attended a small kindergarten where the class was small and he could get individualized attention from the teacher. Still wasn't ready.

I am curious about the speech therapy. She is still pretty little, and some kids (Hayden is one) have a little difficulty pronouncing stuff even up to 8. Is this something that is strictly necessary?

Jen
175/129/120

A lot of kids are held back in kindergarten or 1st grade. It's not a big deal - although I'm sure you feel like it is when you're the parent. I promise, it doesn't have anything to do with the parents in most cases.

I think that you're right, schools are academically pushing kids at younger and younger ages. I teach middle and high school, and I think it's a mistake. I can see the difference both socially and academically. They aren't generally developmentally ready at 4 and 5 to do some of the higher order thinking skills that they are required to do in these early grades.

I have a friend who is a kindergarten teacher (a good one, too - Teacher of the Year good), and her thesis for graduate school dealt with this current trend to push academics on little ones too early. They're just not ready. They need more time to do the "traditional" things that we did when we were their age - paint, color, play with blocks, have recess, etc. When they get a little older and are developmentally ready, then they should attack the academic skills.

Beth (aka Fuelmanswife)

Karen, you have gotten some wonderful advise here. I am not sure if I have anything new to add, but as a former K teacher, I can assure you summer B-day babies have a much harder time in school. I think you made the right decision when you held your son back. I also had to hold my son back (and me being a teacher ) in the 1st grade. It was what he needed to mature enough to catch up with the other students.

One more thing. With all of the federal and state requirements standardized testing is very important in school. To meet the qualifications put down by government, schools have to make additional demands on students. Most of the time it is not what is best for the child. The kindergraten instruction in OH is no longer developmentally appropriate, it is based on what they will need to pass the 1st grade test. I am sure NY has standards that are just as challenging for the student. BTW, our 1st grade teachers have 200 math and language standards they have to teach in 180 days. Make sense? Ok, I guess you can tell I am against dumping all students in the same category (I am now a special education teacher).

Good luck and relax .

Susan ( AKA Northwest)
207/170/160/
size 16/12/8
LC since 4/03

Many thanks again everyone. It makes me feel better to know others that have held their children back. It helps to know your experiences. I know with Kyle his teacher told me, during his 1st go 'round with 1st grade, he was having such a hard time that he'd tear up when he'd try to do his work. Boy, can I relate. I've done that myself. It seemed as though the teacher kept on going and I was sitting there struggling with the concept. I managed through school well, regents student in the top 10 of my class.

Jenna's seems to have a sort of "disconnect" sometimes when it comes to directions. She may need to see something visually in order to understand what to do. Or if you tell her to go get the comb, brush and a washcloth, she will come back with the brush and washcloth, totally forgetting the comb. That's where the school is concerned. My son had speech from age 4 until age 6 and he has done great.

I get the biggest kick out of him because he repeats what I say. If I say certain behavior is inappropriate, I hear him at another time maybe days later telling his sister that "it's not appropriate", what a mouthful for a little guy

I'm rambling again, sorry. It's just that I see our school system trying to put each child into this mold and all should learn the same way and at the same rate. Granted, some do, but also there are kids who learn differently. The one thing I do that makes a huge difference, is I make myself a constant presence to them. I don't bug them or show up in school all the time but at the start of the year I email the teacher and tell her I want to know of any issues, problems etc. Let her know she can contact me anytime. I think they appreciate knowing the moms & dads are concerned about what's going on. In fact, when I go in for IEP meetings each year everyone there knows me by first name and it's a very comfortable experience, they know that I'm a good mom and care about the welfare of my kids.

That being said, again, I appreciate all your responses and we'll see what happens by the end of school. You guys are great Sorry to go on and on.....

Karen

Personally, I think schools have become a bit overzealous in their trying to identify *potential future problems*.
I completely understand what they are *trying* to do, but sometimes they can't see the forest for the trees...

You wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>She may need to see something visually in order to understand what to do. Or if you tell her to go get the comb, brush and a washcloth, she will come back with the brush and washcloth, totally forgetting the comb. That's where the school is concerned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I suddenly had a flashback to my daughter's pre-K testing. My daughter learned to read very early (Hooked on Phonics!!) and when she went for her pre-K testing the summer before she started school, she could already read short, beginner books. Was the school impressed?
No.
They sent a note home and called us in for a *conference* because they were concerned that she could not jump with both feet at the same time.
Well, I assure you, she's ten now and she can jump WITH BOTH FEET, just fine. In fact, she's becoming a rather adept basketball player.

Kids are like snowflakes. No two are alike and they all develop differently (and at different rates). I would not put too much emphasis on the school's *concerns* unless YOU, personally, feel there is something truly wrong. Could be she is just a highly imaginative child who has trouble focusing on the task at hand... something that has to be OUTGROWN.

Summer

Karen, if I can get my four year old to remember to bring me all three items in the list I asked for, I would be thrilled beyond belief! He forgets stuff all the time! I think it has to do with just being in the present. He hears me say, "Luke, go upstairs..." but usually doesn't wait for the "...and get me the hairbrush on the bathroom counter." I personally think that this is normal for a 4 year old, and that the school is being a little paranoid in being concerned. I had a similar experience with my son in kindergarten. The teacher just bugged me to death to get Hayden tested for ADHD. Now, there is no way he is ADHD - he focuses just fine when he wants to. He is, however, a normal little boy, and he gets fidgety and, on occasion, just plain ornery. As I said, sounds like your daughter is just great. Oh, BTW, my second son also talked much later than my first child. I think it's because he really didn't have to - his older brother understood him perfectly and did a lot of translating for him. Just my two cents.

Jen
175/129/120

This is such an interesting thread. My daughter turned six just after she began kindergarten (b-day 9/28). Here you have to be 5 on or before 9/1. She is a very sharp kid - could write her name and all our names at age 3. She is absolutely excelling in school. My other daughter, however, is 4 (Dec b-day) and could not care less about letters, numbers, etc. However, all my children love books. We read to them constantly. Plus, I let them tell me the stories sometimes based on the pictures. I have been told by friends that I should put my 4 year old in a structured environment so she is not left behind when she is in kindergarten. Please. She is exactly where I would expect a 4 year old to be. She loves physical activities, is a very good gymnast, she is outgoing, and very "street smart". I think we are definitely pushing our children much too fast.

Summer, I would be very interested in hearing more about your homeschooling experience. My aunt homeschooled my cousin, and she has done so well. She has learned so much more than typical schools teach.

Kristie

Kristie,

Feel free to email me privately at lawbookskelly@netscape.net and I will be happy to tell you whatever you want to know!

Summer


www.herstorygirl.com

ive been working in schools for years...our schools here in montreal or canada, you have to be 5yrs old by sept 30th...4 is way too young...6 months in a child at that age is A LOT...what we suggest to parents for the child not to panic when they start is to put them in pre-k or daycare...my opinion from experience, i believe that is the best thing to do to a child so they intergrate with others when they start the real thing...if the child has a good foundation at home, no matter what, that foundation will surface and your child will do just fine...put your child even if its only 2x a week in a daycare...it does help them...and trust me they will love it...like i said...6 months is a big difference in a child of 4 or 5 and even 6...all will fall back into place in gr. 2...

enjoy them while they are small...cause i worked with teens for years and boy they sure keep you on your toes...i now work with adults that immigrated here in canada...thats other headaches...i miss my teen kids...they sure gave me a good laugh most of the time...advise to all with teens...listen to them...thats all they want even though you think they give you the brush off...cause they sure listen to us adults and a lot of us think they dont...you will see later when they grow up they heard you...just make sure you keep your eyes and ears open...

life is short
enjoy them

helene

To Love is to risk not being loved in return. To try is to risk failure. But risk must be taken. Because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing.