Sheesh, am I confused.

I made Maggie's Biscotti tonight and something just didn't work. Basically, what I have is granola - which is kind of cool in and of itself - but not really what I expected.

I made these minor deviations, which I didn't think should matter:

Used hazlenut meal rather than almond meal - I've used them interchangeably for everything else with no problem

Used a large egg instead of an extra large egg

Used cardamon and vanilla instead of anise seed and anise extract.

This made a very crumbly mixture that wouldn't hold together - somewhat like pie crust before you add the water. So I added a few drops of water until it would mostly stick together. When I shaped it into the flat loaf, the edges tended to crumble away and it had a crumbly texture. After baking and slicing, it's crumbling away into mostly chunks. Another weird thing is that the WPI doesn't dissolve completely in my mouth. When I first start chewing, the texture is nice and crunchy, but it ends up feeling slightly grainy.


I wonder if my wheat protein isolate isn't the same as Maggie's stuff? I bought it from Honeyville grain company. It doesn't behave the way I've read that WPI behaves. For one thing, it is not at all sticky - far from it. If I wet my finger and dip it in the wpi and rub my fingers together; rather than making a paste, it rolls right off in a little ball. The dough did not cling to the sides of the bowl in the least - like I said, I could barely get it to cling together enough to shape.

Well, if anyone needs a granola recipe....

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~~~Teelbee
Back to GOAL!!!
start weight: 176/goal range: 137-134/now: 138
Reached goal in Aug. 2003 - 4rd year of maintenance.

sorry it didnt work like you were hoping... but dang.. it sure LOOKS good to ME.. good as in YUMMY not good as in what it SHOULD look like *L*..

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Oh, Teel! I'm sorry that this didn't work for you. That's one of the things about low carb baking that drives me nuts - ingredients. I see such a huge difference between how different things (with the same name) act, that it makes me bonkers.

I get my almond flour from almonds on line and my WPI from Trish at lowcarber.com. It kind of reminds me of talcum powder in looks and how it acts dry. Even when it is wet, it's not even the same as soy protein isolate, which also is also sort of "talcy" but "wets" more readily. I find with the WPI I get from Trish works much better when it's mixed with another dry (and coarser) ingredient, like almond flour or flax meal, before adding anything liquid.

I remember Gilley made these without any WPI at all. She used SPI and some vital wheat gluten. The thread is here: http://www.lowcarbeating.com/bb/show...light=biscotti

It would be really nice if there were some standards connected with names in this ingredient department. ***sigh***

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Teel, I'm sure it was the WPI - I know there are several different ones out there. One brand is called Arise and even IT has two differing types!

I love the biscotti, in fact I think I'll make some today - sorry yours didn't turn out as expected...it's such a pain to waste ingredients - can you chop it up and eat it with low-carb milk?

Char

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Ah... that's very interesting about there being different WPI products. I'm going to write Honeyville and see what they have to say.

Yeah, actually, this stuff is very decent granola - so it's not wasted. The slightly gritty aftertaste is far less noticable when eaten with a small amount of 1/2-and-1/2. I'm figuring about 6 servings of granola per recipe; so, say, about 2 g. net carb per serving.

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~~~Teelbee
Back to GOAL!!!
start weight: 176/goal range: 137-134/now: 138
Reached goal in Aug. 2003 - 4rd year of maintenance.

I think the granola looks great!
I've never been much of a biscotti eater, well except for a couple Mother's Biscotti that my boss gave me last year. But I think I'll give this a try. I have chocolate in mine as I'm not a fan of Anise or licorice.

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Melissa

The Honeyville Grain company website had a link to some low carb forums under "Atkins All the Way". So I posted my question in their Low Carb Cooking Techniques and Ingredients forum. Scott123 (who sometimes posts here, too) took time to analyze my problem with the biscotti, which I've recapped below. I'm also linking to a prior posting where Scott123 described how WPI works from a food science point of view.

from: biscotti vs. granola discussion Basically, Scott123 thinks there was not enough liquid in my dough for the following reasons:

I used whole hazelnut meal rather than than blanched almond meal in Maggie's recipe. The extra fat in hazelnut meal could interfer with the bonding of the WPI and liquid; also the nut skins could absorb more of the water, making a drier dough.

I used a smaller egg than the recipe specified, also leading to a drier dough

I used a more concentrated form liquid Splenda than Maggie's recipe, so there was less liquid (maybe, but there was only about a 1/2 tsp difference by volume).

There are two different types of WPI, but Scott123 thinks (but is not abosolutely positive) the Locarber.com WPI and Honeyvile Grain WPI are the same form.

This discussion is quite interesting: Scott123's detailed explanation of WPI properties

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~~~Teelbee
Back to GOAL!!!
start weight: 176/goal range: 137-134/now: 138
Reached goal in Aug. 2003 - 4rd year of maintenance.

Thanks for the update, Teel. There sure is a lot to learn about using low carb products. With the exception of a lc cheesecake, I've not done any baking. But I think I might like to make the biscotti. I really appreciate you coming back with these tips and ideas.

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Melissa

I beg to differ on the hazelnut vs. almond meal issue, as I've used them interchangeably in this recipe without mishap.

Maybe the egg though, that makes sense! I still suspect the WPI... [insert suspicious hairy snake eye emoticon here...]

Char

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Veni, vidi, velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Save the Earth - it's the only planet with CHOCOLATE!

hmmm - I think it's likely that the type of nut flour I used contributed to the crumbliness. I used a whole nut flour, not a blanched nut flower. I've used both the blanched Almonds Online flour and the Trader Joe's whole nut flours. The Trader Joe's nut flours are much, much more dry than the Almonds Online blanched nut flour, which is just slightly moist.

Usually, I prefer the extra fiber and dryness of the Trader Joe's flour, but I wouldn't be surprised if Maggie's recipe works better with the Almonds Online flour. I'll have to order some more Almonds Online flour and try that.

And, use the bigger egg, too. :cook:

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~~~Teelbee
Back to GOAL!!!
start weight: 176/goal range: 137-134/now: 138
Reached goal in Aug. 2003 - 4rd year of maintenance.

Hmm. Might work, Teel. Also, you might want to add a little water, since as Scott pointed out, I used the more dilute version of the liquid splenda. (I've got both kinds, but just happened to be working with Trish's version when I made this up.)

But, ya know, that granola looks good! LOL!

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Trader Joe's are the ONLY flours I use! And I didn't adjust the recipe at all for moistness, and both the almond and the hazelnut worked fine....

So I'm stickin' with my theory about the WPI being the culprit!

Char

__________________
Veni, vidi, velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Save the Earth - it's the only planet with CHOCOLATE!

Maggie, I'm planning on making your chocolate macadamia nut biscotti. Sounds yummy!

But I'm curious as to why you use sea salt over regular table salt? I don't know what the difference is, other than sea salt does not contain added iodine.

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Melissa

Ahh, nuthin special. I just started using sea salt for the flavor and texture (the fine, which I use, is just a bit coarser than regular table salt), a long time ago.

I'm sure any salt will do.

I just, over time, tried to give more and more information about my ingredients. I've had some results from lc recipes much worse than poor Teel had with mine, due to differences in ingredients that either aren't well described (ex: "protein powder" - there are a zillion of them and each one has different ingredients and carb counts) or aren't uniform from brand to brand.

I can't remember if I put it in the recipe section or just said it in a thread, but the chocolate ones take me longer to dry out than the other varieties. For the chocolate, after the second baking, I often let them continue to dry out on the oven racks (in my oven which has a pilot light) themselves for a few more hours, or even overnight if I've baked in the evening. I don't box them up until they're completely brittle.

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Well, hey, you may be right. This stuff sure doesn't act like anything I've read about WPI.

From the thread at Atkins All the way:
I tried the experiment above. I mixed 1/4 cup of the WPI with 1 TBS water. I couldn't mix in all the dry material, so I added 1 more TBS, which was enough to form a "ball". Except that the ball was kind of more like an oval as I couldn't compress it into a ball. I tried kneading it and it was so weird. After a smush, it would spring back to it's original shape! The stuff reminded me of Flubber! I could squish it, twist it, fold it, and knead it; and when I let it rest, it would slowly reform itself back to it's original shape. I should take a video of it, it looks really, really strange when it does that. And, it wasn't sticky - it did not cling to my hands, the sides of the bowl, or the cutting board where I was kneading.

I figured I'd add more water to see if that would make it sticky. It was like trying to add water to a rubber ball! I smooshed it and tried to squeeze it the water, but the dough became even more resilient and took up very little of the water in the bottom of the bowl. I kneaded it further and it was even more resilient than before - and not at all sticky. My hands were cleaner when I quit than when I started. In fact, I came in here to type without washing my hands first.

So, I dunno. I almost wonder if they packaged the wrong material in the WPI bag.

But, it's not bad granola - and you don't mind a bit of grittiness.

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~~~Teelbee
Back to GOAL!!!
start weight: 176/goal range: 137-134/now: 138
Reached goal in Aug. 2003 - 4rd year of maintenance.