Looks like the only hunter-gatherer on this site is me. I don't mind because I talk to myself all the time and am used to it. But I still can't understand why the subject of kefir is on this site as well. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on why since dairy, grain and soy are not allowed on cave-man diets.

Actually, I wanted to brag that I finally beat the 200 pound mark at which I was hovering for approximately 3 months. My son has noticed the difference in me and has adopted my way of eating.
At the risk of flogging a dead horse, sonny has also heard from his young male friends that soy is not good for his manhood so won't eat anything containing it. Young males have tuned into the soy hazard without my saying anything. How about that (gloat)?

kateryna
Apr-15-03 226/197/126 (lean-ing towards NeanderThin)
You can only be young once, but you can be immature forever!

[This message was edited by kateryna on 12-16-03 at 10:04 AM.]

That is great that you beat 200!

Actually, Weston A Price Foundation not only allows kefir, but encourages it and REAL milk. It is a "primitive" diet. That is why the kefir topic is in here.

I loosely follow Weston A Price. Kind of a combo of Go! Diet, WAP and Atkins is what I do.

Blessings!
Sharron
Author of "Low Carb Cooking at Sharron's Place," and "Extreme Lo-Carb Cuisine," available where ever books are sold.

www.thelowcarbcook.com

"My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart." Colossians 2:2

I think the Cave-man section is perfect for Kefir. It is so ancient and isn't processed by artificial means. (the home brewed kind) It is soooooo natural, this is the best place for it. I LOVE it, in fact, I am going to go make myself a cup right now,

Barb - 30 lbs gone FOREVER!
www.iwsgroupinc.com - website design and development


Atkins-3/14/03
174/144/135 5'2"
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
Knowledge is POWER

I'm a hunter-gatherer too.

Kateryna, if you want to talk paleo, I'm here for you.

What books do you like? So far I have read Neanderthin, Protein Power Lifeplan, and the paleodiets website with all its multitudinous links. A friend has just given me a copy of Loren Cordain's book (The Paleodiet?) and I am just starting it.

I know Cordain believes in the lowfat version of paleo, and I must admit the reading I have done so far puts me more in the highfat camp, but I will read it with an open mind.

After tracking my eating on fitday for about 7 weeks, I find I eat more protein grams than fat grams per day. Of course the fat calories are way more, but maybe this makes me more of a Cordain-ite in practice.

One exception with standard paleo eating I make is fruit. I over-indulged in fruit last summer and gained. True I was eating dairy at the time and perhaps that makes a difference. Be that as it may I am not going to experiment with that again for a while. As I get closer to goal and increase my carb level I will definitely give fruit another try.

Sorry to be so long responding to your initial post. I would love to hear your hunter-gatherer tales.

Alice

Hi Kateryna and Alice,

I have been on this board for ages and I have only had one answer from another Cavewomen and that was Dryad, but I haven't heard from her for a while. I was getting really disheartend and about to give up......I think we all need to talk to people on the same plan.

Today I re-started Paleo and have read all the books and studied the websites. I do eat a little cheese but I have now given up butter...that was a real struggle, but now I won't crave the bread which was always my downfall.

I put on 3 pounds last week because I had my Mum ill and wasn't eating properly, but already today I feel better and I am so thrilled that someone at last as come back on the paleo board.

Well done you two..you are doing really well and I look forward to talking with you more over time.

Take care, I will be back tomorrow, I have friends coming around in an hour so I have to go now.

I am soooo happy, see you later,
love Louloo. x

Hi, Louloo!

Thanks for the warm welcome! It's great to meet another cave person. Let's gather round the fire and chew some bones together!

I first got interested in paleo-style eating when I heard about the Neanderthin book. (I'm sure I first heard of it on lce - I've learned so many new things from these folks.) I checked the book out of the library and started reading all the websites I could find on the subject.

It remained an academic interest until earlier this year when I began to suspect that I had a dairy intolerance. It still took me some time to decide to give up dairy, it had been a favorite food and since starting lc I was really enjoying heavy cream!

As for the other "forbidden fruits" (i.e. grains, legumes, sugar, and potatoes) I find that I have absolutely no interest in eating any of them. Once I decided to try no-dairy, voila, I was a cave person.

Compared to "pure" paleolithic eating, I have a couple of moderate departures and some that seem to me minor. (Of course, there's a lot of different ideas about what "pure" paleolithic is anyway) I do eat butter, which is dairy and neolithic. My reason for continuing butter is that it doesn't seem to affect my "stiffness" (the symptom I have from eating dairy), I like it, and I think it's a healthy fat.

Another deviation is that the only fruit I eat is berries and some melon. As mentioned above, I gained weight last summer when I had liberal amounts of fruit. When I get much closer to my goal weight I will try fruit again and see what happens. This isn't really a non-paleo thing to do, but it is different from mainstream paleo eating.

As for other strict paleo things, I don't eat everything fresh, I do have canned and frozen items (canned tuna, sardines, tomatoes, chilies, coconut milk, and others, frozen fish, meat, berries) I eat a lot of organic food, but probably not more than half. I would be willing to eat vinegar and soy sauce occasionally, and to cook with wine once in a while.

(actually, I've gotten interested in the apple cider vinegar thread and may give that a try even if the cave people didn't know how to make vinegar)

I would love to hear how you got started in paleo and what books you've read. I guess you can tell I'm an avid reader, and I alway like to read something new.

I'm curious about your reasons for keeping cheese in your diet. I have read about paleo eaters who continue with some dairy because they feel that without it it is too hard to get enough animal fat.

Sorry to hear that bread craving is a problem. You are very wise to stop the butter if it helps with that situation.

How much fruit do you eat when on paleo? Is losing weight one of your goals?

Have to go now. I'm so glad to have a cyber-cave-friend, and in the UK too. Let's howl at the moon together. one, two, three, hooooowl!!!

ta ta for now

Alice

Hi Alice,

I too am very pleased to meet you too. I loved your post, it made me laugh out loud.

I first started Atkins in January 2003 and I have all the books up to and including Atkins for Life. I have also read Schwarzbein 1 and 2, Living Low carb, High Protein Diet, Life without Bread, (this was brilliant), Secrets to low carb success and Neanderthin. Plus, like you, following all the links to the Paleo web site etc.

I changed over to Paleo when I started talking to Dryad. It made so much sence to me and I bought the book and was sold on it.

I eat fruit which is why I like this WOE. I have an orange and a few nuts for breakfast...I also buy fresh apricots, apples and figs....because I suffer with IBS the figs are great.

I still eat cheese because I don't eat as much meat as I should.....I have improved a lot though and I can now tolerate eggs, they used to make me gag, but as long as they are not runny I am ok with them.

I think stopping the butter, which I always have associated with bread, was a really good move. I no longer want the bread without the butter.

I love fish and this is my main protein with lots of nuts of course. I too use frozen veggies and tinfish and meat....I don't think it matters much. I buy organic when I can get it.

I just feel great when I don't cheat and now that I have you to encourage me, I hope and pray that I can stick with it.

Barb has been my mentor and has been brilliant trying to encourage me to keep to the plan and I hope that she will continue to join us.

I am on this WOE because I need to lose weight. I have a lot of health problems that stop me moving around a lot. I am waiting for an operation on my back and I am pinning all my hopes on it improving my mobility. I have just restarted Pilates......not very well mind, my bones are so weak that I can't do all the moves, but I love it and I am having a go, thats the main thing.

I am 5 foot 5 inches tall and weigh in at 175 pounds and I would like to get down to 135 if possible. The underactive thyroid doesn't help either, LOL

Better stop here for now, it is so nice to meet you...Illinois sounds really exotic....whats the weather like? It is storms here with high winds and torrential rain.

Be good and take care,

love Louloo. x

Yes, Illinois is probbly about as exotic as Bristol. (LOL) It's fun to have international friends. Illinois is mostly flat, originally grassland but now covered with corn and soybean fields (SO neolithic!) Trees grow well here and there are lots of beautiful tall trees in Oak Park. We are right next to Chicago, which is one of the world's great cities. Wonderful location right on Lake Michigan, which is like a huge inland sea (fresh water, though). Many cultural and educational attractions around here and lots of interesting ethnic neighborhoods.

We spent two weeks in January visiting my parents in South Florida. Now that is a very exotic place. We took a couple of day trips to the Everglads, which is one of the wonders of the world. I am very lucky to be able to travel there every year.

The weather right now is COLD!!!! Lots of snow and ice too. We have four definite seasons here with cold winters and hot summers. It won't be too long before you hear me complaining about how HOT and HUMID it is around here.

I am so sorry to hear about your health problems. I hope the operation is successful - do you know yet when it will be? Be sure to keep me posted.

You are lucky to have found a woe that helps you to feel better. That is a great help at times when things are not going so well. On the other hand, stress and sickness often make it harder to resist comfort foods that are not so good for us. I hope I can help. I'm working on a theme song for us, but it's not done yet so you have something to look forward to. LOL

I admire you for learning to eat more meat even though you don't like it. And eggs too. Actually, I admire myself too because we are pretty alike in this. I used to eat a lot of vegetarian meals (rice and beans and whole grain bread) because I just didn't like meat very much. When I started lowcarb in December 2001, I just plunged in, but luckily, pretty soon found that I liked meat. Eggs are still a bit of a problem. I have to work on earting more of them. I just found a source for wonderful eggs from hens that go outside - the yolks are orange! That should inspire me to eat more.

The best part is that, like you, I have found a way of eating that makes me feel wonderful. With lots of meat and veggies, a few eggs, nuts, and berries, and none of those pesky neolithic foods, I feel fabulous.

I'm glad you mentioned fish. I love it too, but lately I've been forgetting to eat it. I just went to the store and bought tons for the freezer. Because of the good omega 3 fatty acids, I will try to eat some fish or seafood every day.

It makes sense to me to eat cheese as you learn to eat more meat. Changing our tastes in food can be a slow process. (Pause for Louloo and Alice to pat themselves on the back. Bravo! Bravo!)

I am 5'6" and 225 pounds, so you see I have quite a bit more to lose than you. It makes sense that you can eat more fruit and nuts than I can.

Isn't Barb a doll? It is fun getting to know her too. I think she is doing fine with her neolithic foods, and enjoys them a lot too, so I guess that makes her our farmer friend who lives in town. It's nice to be able to visit.

Do you think I'm getting too fanciful? I love the "romance" of the paleo concept. We are doing an even stranger woe than the mainstream lcers, so I think the cave images really help. We might as well have fun with this.

Wow! You are a great reader. You've read more lc books than I have. I also love Life Without Bread. Each author has some different things to share, and that one is more different than most. The Paleo Diet (Loren Cordain) will make dyed in the wool lcers mad. He really puts down low carb and is very insulting, calling it "faddish." He is at great pains to differentiate himself from Atkins. I have found a few things to agree with him about, but the putdowns are a turnoff. We ought to be able to disagree and still be nice.

One last thing - I read on the other thread that your mum had been ill and is now better. I'm so glad. I hope you have a good support system, for both emotional and practical needs for when you have your operation. You know what I mean - friends and family.

Oops, one more last thing. You mentioned IBS. My mother suffers with this. She is now 88 and it started when she was 25, and I think it gets worse with the years. How do figs help? Do they stop or prevent the diarrhea or cramps? I have read many accounts of people starting the lc woe and noticing dramataic improvement of their IBS. I don't know if my mother would try it. She doesn't need to lose weight and as a child of the depression thinks people should eat everything and be glad they've got it. She also loves her sweet treats. She has been very supportive of me, especially since she can see how much it has helped me.

Well, that's all for now. Watch out for those torrential rains.

Your paleo-pal,

Alice

Hey cavegals - I'm in the middle of reading "Neanderthin". Audette suffers from rheumatiod arthritis and follows the caveman diet to reverse his symptoms. I too have RA along with a few other things and want to try the diet to see if it can help me.

What other books would you all recommend and what are the sites you use for info?

Thanks!

Connie

[img]//www.lowcarbeating.com/lcesupporter.gif[/img]

Hi Paleo Pals, just popped in to say HI!!! I love reading about Paleo and should pick up a book on it. I'll watch for what you recommend Alice.

Louloo, I hope you are feeling better and your mum too.

I think it's interesting what "mysterious" illnesses humans have developed and how modern med still doesn't have a clue. Sometimes I think we know so much MORE than they do. (insert haughty looking smilie here, )

I have to laugh about Illinois sounding exotic. It's so flat, dry and boring. I've never thought of it as exotic. There are pretty areas, but for the most part it's pretty dull.

Barb - 30 lbs gone FOREVER!
www.iwsgroupinc.com - website design and development


Atkins-3/14/03
174/144/135 5'2"
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
Knowledge is POWER

Hi Alice, Connie and Barb,

First off Connie, there are some brilliant sites all about the Paleo WOE...try this one for some marvelous recipes...www.PaleoFood.com there are loads of other links to take you to lots of info as well.

I hope that you do read the book Barb, it is very interesting reading. Some of the LC books are downright boring, but I couldn't put this one down.

Alice, you still make me laugh. We do seem to have a lot in common, don't we?

The figs are to stop the pain and bloating because my IBS causes constipation and this WOE doesn't help that. I am prescribed three fibergel powders and 4 senna tablets per day because of the amount of drugs that I have to take. Now eating about 4 or 5 figs, which I love by the way, I only take 2 senna tablets with those and have no problems.....I much prefer this way because it is natural.

I can't wait for our 'Theme Tune' it sounds like fun and we can sure use some of that at the moment.

I don't know whether or not I will get an operation until I see the Neurosurgeon. I am hoping for an appointment to see him this week sometime. I have all the x-rays from the MRI scan and the papers with the Neurologist's report, so I am just waiting now to see whether the damage is too bad to put right......plus the fact that I have Emphysema, that alone might make it a no no for an op.


I have a wonderful circle of friends plus my Hubbie of course and my family.......everyone is going to chip in and help, as they do now anyway, so if I get the op I will have plenty of support.

Your place still sounds more exotic than Bristol, LOL We are a very famous city with some beautiful places to see and a very long history.....my hubbie is into the history side of things and can tell you anything about Bristol. We live on the outskirts, it was all countryside when we moved here 30 years ago, but it is very built up now.

I have to go, we have friends just called in, I will be back later,

Take care my cavewomen friend,

love Louloo. x

Thanks for the link, Louloo!

Connie

[img]//www.lowcarbeating.com/lcesupporter.gif[/img]

Good morning, paleo pals

The signature tune, or theme song, is ready to go - I think I will start another thread, in case anyone else wants to write a silly song.

It is to the tune of Helen Reddy's "I Am Woman." Louloo, I thought this early 70's song might be from before your time, but if you have lived in Bristol with dh for thirty years, you're probably about my age - 52. (Note, I just had my magic birthday as I was born in 1952.)

Barb and Connie, my fave paleo book is "The Protein Power Lifeplan" by the Eadeses. Barb, I know you're a PP fan, so this should be a natural for you. I finally bought my own paperback version from Amazon, but Barb, the Elmhurst library has it.

I need to reread Neanderthin now that I have plunged into paleo. I read it once, checked out of library, maybe it's time to buy my own copy. You may have read my review of Cordains "Paleo Diet" in an earlier post on this thread. Definitely do not buy this book, but if you see it in the library you might have a look.

Another not specifically paleo book that might give some RA insight is "Going Against the Grain" by Melissa Diane Smith. While not specifically advocating either lowcarb or paleo, the author is very supportive of both (I like that!). She explores the role of grains and also legumes and dairy in causing all kinds of health problems. The chapter in PPLP called "The Leaky Gut" addresses the role of these foods in autoimmune diseases.

To summarize off the top of my head, it seems that grains, legumes, dairy, and nightshades have these pesky things called lectins in them. They can sometimes sneak past our intestinal barriers of defense and stimulate our immune systems to fight them off. Problem is that these lectins resemble some of our own important body tissues. Our immune systems get confused and start fighting our tissues as well since they look so much like those bad guys they just got done fighting.

That was a very simplistic explanation. PPLP has a whole chapter, and I think this is covered in GAG too (it's been a while since I read it). Connie, some source I read said that the lectins in the nightshades (potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, and eggplant as well as tobacco) were the ones associated with arthritis, but I can't remember if RA was specifically mentioned.

I love that paleodiets website. It took me quite a while to read most of the links. It is very fair in what it includes. Dairy avoidance makes for some strange bedfellows. One of the anti-dairy sites they link to is very vegan and lumps dairy together with that evil meat!! But we cave people are open minded and can learn from vegans as well as anyone else.

Louloo, I'm glad to hear you have lots of helpful family and friends around, as well as dh. You have so many serious health challenges and you seem to have such a good attitude - hopeful, and taking things as they come.

Thanks for translating your weight into pounds for me. I know a stone = 14 pounds, but 14 is such an awkward number! Someday I will return the favor and translate my weight stats into stones.

Here's an example of the synchronicity of the universe. My classical radio station is celebrating the birthday of some Brit conductor today, and just as I was turning on the computer and thinking of Louloo, they burst out with a spirited rendition of "Rule, Britannia." Boy, that song has a lot of verses. And they had a really deep bass singing them.

That could be a candidate for a paleolithic theme song. How about "Rule, Paleolithic! (have to say paleolithic fast) Paleolithic rules the ways! (of eating of course)

That's all for now. I'm off to start a song parody thread. Coming soon to a bulletin board thread near you - We Are Cave Folk, Hear Us Roar.

Alice

Hi Alice,

You have excelled yourself this time....especially the bit about Rule Britannia but using 'Rule Paleolithic'....brilliant, I can't stop singing it myself now.

I think it is a good idea to start another thread for your theme song...it would get us right off topic just as we were beginning to get going again, LOL

Yes, Colin and I have been married for 37 years on March 4th. I am 57, soon to be 58 on 26th Feb so I am older than you.......not by tooooo much though, we still have a great deal in common.

I have not been able to find any of the books in our library, I had to buy all of them and I spent over £200 altogether.....bit by bit so that DH didn't complain. I have read all of them and have my favourites too. Now I seem to lend them to friends, so I have become a library myself. LOL

I find that there is soooo much info on the web that I no longer need to buy any books. With everything on here as well, I feel very well informed about my chosen WOE.

What do you eat Alice? Can you give me some idea, it might change my WOE a bit, I do tend to stick with the same old things. Today I have made a huge stew for our dinner. All the root veggies that you can imagine, plus potatoes for hubbie and of course loads of really lean meat. (still cannot stand fatty meat)

I am going to have some sugar free jello after but no cream, just to give my sweet tooth a treat.

I am bound to lose weight on this plan when you think of the jacket potatoes and bread and cakes that I used to eat. Even though I am eating fruit, it is still a lot healthier than I used to eat.

Let me know where you post your "Theme Song" I will be back later.....are you about 8 hours behind the UK....it is now 5pm here?

Take care,
love Louloo. x

Alice, thanks for your informative and entertaining post!!!! I look forward to reading about Paleo all the time. I can't wait for your song. I do know the tune to "I am Woman" which seems very fitting to a Paleo song, ROAR!!!! I am a Leo, so roaring just comes naturally to me,

Louloo, I think with Alice's help, you'll be off and running in no time!!!!!

Connie, is this just not getting more and more interesting???

I save this post to read last, after going through all my other responses to other posts I'm involved in. I just love sitting here reading and posting back!!!!

Oh and Alice, I had read some information about Lectins a few years back. You have renewed my interest about them. I always knew the nightshades were quite detrimental to our health. My MIL is doing SBD and was eating tomatoes. Her knee has been bothering her something fierce. I told her to cut out the nightshades immediately. So far no improvement......poor old gal. She had an MRI and bloodtests done last week, so far I don't know what the results were.

Barb - 30 lbs gone FOREVER!
www.iwsgroupinc.com - website design and development


Atkins-3/14/03
174/144/135 5'2"
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
Knowledge is POWER