80 miles

The book is now being held for me at the library. I hope to pick it up on Tuesday.

There really aren't enoug folks doing it to warrant its own forum. That is why Andrea created this one -- for those other plans that are out there. Now, I'm sure if there were a lot of folks doing it consistently, then she'd add one.

Hi, December Angel and Sharron,

Here's another homeschool mom interested in Schwarzbein!

I just got back from vacation and am putting the SP books on my list. I read the first a few years ago when I started lc, but have yet to track down a copy of the second. Our library doesn't have it.

I'm interested in the adrenal issues because of the nighttime hot flashes I've been having. Some say that nighttime hot flashes are linked to adrenal stress, so I'm hoping to nourish my adrenals. I have been eating more carbs from increased veggies and fruits and continued to maintain my weight or lose (hurray). The hot flashes are getting better, and I'm sleeping better lately too. Of course, I have no idea whether they would have gotten better anyway. I'm also taking nourishing herbal infusions to help my adrenals, so I can't say which change is helping more.

Louloo - I'm thinking about you, hope you're doing well.


Alice

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lc since 12/18/01

Hi Alice

I'm going today to pick up SP.

I too am finding I need a few more carbs to function. I've been doing a very loose Zone-like approach (forgot to mention it in the other thread!) -- basically a few whole grains occasionally and more fruit, but really watching my amounts. I sleep better and have more energy with just a few more carbs. I'd say I'm probably around 60? carbs a day right now...?

I don't know when I'll have time to read it, but hopefully I'll be able to at least look at highlights over the next few days!

btw, I just went and had my thyroid, iron levels and b-12 checked, though no results yet. Will be going for adrenal testing hopefully soon......

Went to Borders today and bought SPII. Started reading right away, hope to have more to share soon.

Alice

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lc since 12/18/01

That sounds great, Alice

Well, I've been reading a lot of books and not posting much. I've read a bit of SPII, and skimmed through both it and the first book. Here are some thoughts.

- it dovetails nicely with Weston A. Price ideas because of the inclusion of dairy and grains.

- surprisingly, it also dovetails nicely with paleo. This is surprising because she includes lots of neolithic foods (dairy, grains, legumes, potatoes) in her plan. However, one can achieve the carbohydrate levels she recommends strictly with fruits and moderate/higher carb veggies. Just by selecting the paleo foods from her lists and skipping the others one can do both quite easily imho.

- her advice on sleeping and exercising go well with a favorite book that I am currently re-reading, "Lights Out," by T.S. Wiley. Wiley argues that the advent of artificial light and with it the habit of staying up late and sleeping less have all been a disaster for people's health. She also warns about the dangers of over-exercising. Schwarzbein provides a lot of re-inforcement for both of these ideas. Wiley gets into hormonal stuff and Schwarzbein helps with understanding that part of LO.

- the real sticking point for a hard-core low carber like me is Schwarzbein's insistence that we really need carbohydrate in our diet to have balanced hormone levels. Both Protein Power and Atkins (I think - I'm not as familiar with that) say that there is no absolute need for carbohydrates in our diets. (Of course, they both recommend we eat veggies and other carb foods for their nutrients - not for the carbs per se.)

I will need to do a lot more reading and thinking about this. After I've done that, I may even write to the Doctors Eades through their website and ask them about it. Basically, Schwarzbein seems to be saying that insulin levels too low are as bad as too high. The only way to keep them up to the proper level is by eating enough carbohydrate, levels at least on a par with PP and DANDR maintenance levels. Also, too little carbohydrate leads to higher levels of stress hormones.

When I was in the library the other day, I was irresistibly drawn to Protein Power Lifeplan, my fave lc book. I have put SPII on hold for a bit while I re-read PPLP. Frustratingly, there is little to nothing about adrenaline and so on in PPLP. They do say that high insulin levels can lead to elevated adrenaline.

- Schwarzbein also reinforces T.S. Wiley's ideas about hormone replacement as explained in her book "Sex, Lies, and Menopause." Both are in favor of bio-identical hormones, with a dosage schedule mimicking a menstrual cycle. I'm really not fond of this as a blanket recommendation and it is making me question at least as much as the carbohydrate/stress hormone issue.

Changes I am making for sure are to sleep more, following Lights Out ideas of sleeping in synch with natural day/night patterns, excluding as much light from my bedroom as possible, and revising my exercise plan to include more resistance training. Instead of waking up early to walk for an hour, I will do my walks later in the day and for shorter time periods.

I will definitely stick with paleo foods, but still thinking about proper carb levels.

Sorry this was so long. Hope you're all doing well.

Alice

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lc since 12/18/01

Thanks for the nice write up. I'm not even past the intro in SPI. :o

I will say, though, that I do feel much better when I have some "carbs," like fruit or even whole grain bread along with my meats and veggies. I have trouble functioning at all at induction levels since I've been having these issues. I'm doing more of a Zone-like approach. I won't lose weight this way, most likely, but with my adrenal issues as they are (and possibly other ones) I don't think I am going to lose until I get some medical intervention with my hormones...

I can't seem to find it in this post, but I'm curious about the exercising? I know there are days when I simply don't feel like I"m supposed to do a full work out -- rather just some simple moves. Then in a day or so I can do a full routine. Can you tell me more?

Sharron - the over-exercising thing is very interesting. I've found it in several of the books that I'm avid about right now - Schwarzbein, Lights Out, Tired of Being Tired, and probably others.

The caveman books always have good images to get things across: If you do lots of aerobic exercises, to your body it's as if a tiger is chasing you. Every day. It puts your stress hormones through the roof and can lead to adrenal burnout.

These folks think good exercises would be yoga stuff (I know you're doing that). They really like the breathing and meditation aspects of yoga too. Also, gentle walking. As long as the walks are gentle and easy, I think it's ok to take them often. Same would go for biking, swimming, etc.

The Tired book advises that exercise should feel good. If it makes you tired and achy it's too much.

Protein Power Lifeplan likes meditation - that's what they advise to deal with stress.

So, according to these folks, if your adrenals are stressed, you will lose better by exercising less and meditating more!

The fact that you feel better with more carbs really goes along with what Schwarzbein is saying. I don't seem to have as many adrenal issues as you, but there seems to be consensus that menopause stresses the adrenals, hence my interest in the subject. Good for you to deal with it before you get to that point, eh?

I think Schwarzbein's idea of a balanced meal (protein, fat, non-starchy veggies, carbohydrate) is an easy model to follow. I haven't read The Zone, but it's probably very similar.

That's all for now - someone is clamoring to use the computer. Hope to go to the zoo today, we'll see if that works out.

Alice

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lc since 12/18/01

Hi Sharron,

Along with my main job, I'm also a fitness instructor. Because of the amount of exercise I do, I've optted for a plan that allows for more carbs like the SP or SPII plan. Now in the fitness industry, there is a term called "over training." It occurs when an exerciser doesn't allow his/her body to recover between exercises. It is important to allow the body to repair itself after a workout. Listen to your body.
Allowing your body to rest will increase your performance on the next workout.

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Kelli (LCing since 01/01/03)
Restarted 02/09/04 @ 155.5

Thanks, ladies!

I was "discussing" this with dh, well, really I was discussing and he was laying there occasionally saying "mm, hmm."

Anyway, I was telling dh about this discussion last night. I think it is pretty cool that what I've found on my own -- that I simply feel better eating more "moderately" and just doing my yoga (several times a day, actually) and some weights (a few times a week) without any "strenuous" exercise at the present time. I love going for walks, but it just hasn't felt "right" for some time, yanno? I get plenty of exercise just running up and down the stairs!

With the Zone, it is all about balancing insulin. He typically recommended 40% carbs, 30% protein and 30% fat. What I've discovered with BC's help is that neither she nor I actually eat that ratio. What it really works out best for the both of us is a meat main course and 2 servings of veggies or a serving of veggies and a fruit. Fat is added as needed, either by butter, etc., or nuts. I can sub a fruit or veg for a whole grain (bread or cracker), but I've got to have a fruit or preferrably a veggie with it or my insulin gets out of whack.

I absolutely don't use any of the "fake" foods that doctor Sears recommended. I eat a more "paleo" type diet, as you know, Alice. I can't say I really follow any one plan any more. I'm much further from Atkins than I used to be, but still not really Zone or paleo either!

I know! I'm following Sharron's Low Carb Plan

(Sorry, folks, this is what you get when I've been up since 330! :silly: )

btw, I did re-read my test results and noticed some odd values. I'm eagerly awaiting getting my $$ so I can go to the ND and get it all interpreted and have my adrenal panel done!

Sharron - you made sense to me!

It is interesting that you worked out all these things on your own, and then find books telling you back the same thing.

I think Atkins says that at some point you shouldn't be following Atkins but be doing Sharron's or Alice's or etc.

You're sounding pretty chipper - way to go, Sharron!

Alice

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lc since 12/18/01

hmm, i'm really interested in this topic of over-exercise, alice! thank you for all of the information.
i have not been LCing per se, for a while now. but i have really become addicted to my exercise - which has allowed me to lose weight and really change the shape of my body.
now, i'm not the "brisk walk" kinda girl. i go after it hard every day at the gym - i do hard cardio (running, elliptical, bike) until my t-shirt is soaked. and i usually lift one muscle group each day.
i mix things up by sometimes attending body pump classes (where we work all muscle groups, a little cardio, etc) and/or yoga and pilates classes. sometimes i even pull "doubles" - where i go before work for a class perhaps, and then back to the gym at nite for my full cardio workout and lifting.

i worry sometimes b/c we work all muscle groups in that body pump class (sometimes we really focus on one group), and i may have lifted that muscle group the nite before. so is that bad that i'm not letting those muscles recover first??

i rarely feel achy or seriously sore .... but sometimes generally tired and run down. i think i've become really addicted - it's like i don't feel "right" if i don't get a full workout in. in fact, i am taking the day off today - for the first time in 17 days.

alice, according to what you have read - am i doing too much? will TOO MUCH exercise hinder my weight loss efforts?

thanks in advance ........

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Carrie
SBD since 9/12/2005
Re-started 5/8/2006
My new journal: Just Breathe

Hi, Carrie,

I'll try to help. I think you're in your 20's? If so, you can take more exercise than us oldsters. Still, you're describing a really strenuous exercise routine, so you are probably right to be wondering about this.

All the books I've read stress the importance of the rest period between workouts. After you stress one muscle group it needs rest and recovery time before you ask it to work again. The way they usually put it is that when you work the muscle you cause microscopic tears and damage to it. Then during the rest period it's like your body says, "Wow, she's really using this. Better build it up stronger this time." So, while you rest your muscle gets built up stronger. If you don't take the rest period, those tears don't get fixed and you don't get stronger.

The tiger analogy goes more with the cardio/aerobic type exercise. These authors are saying that it's good to crank it out full blast every 7 to 10 days, but more than that and your body reads it as intense stress and pumps out too much cortisol and other stress hormones. They also explain how these hormonal responses create the famous "runner's high," and how they can make exercise addictive.

The Tired book does go into an explanation of how over-exercise can cause of weight loss efforts to stall.

I know you know this, but I'm saying it anyway for the benefit of those reading this. I'm not an exercise physiologist or a doctor or any kind of professional or researcher. I'm an interested layperson sharing info from books I've read.

Carrie, you're in Chicago, right? I'd be happy to share my books with you. You're the only one who can judge what level of exercise is right for you.

I want to add that none of these authors believe that no exercise is the right answer. They believe we are best served by appropriate, moderate exercise. What is appropriate and moderate is different for each of us, hence the need for information and thinking time and some trial and error to find the right way.

Have you read about slow cadence resistance training? I think that's the right generic term. Two books by two different authors are "The Slow Burn Fitness Revolution" and "Power of Ten." They have you do slow motion lifting with weights heavy enough that you reach complete muscle exhaustion in about 3 to 6 reps. You do a whole workout this way and then rest for a week before the next one! I'm seriously looking into this. Of the two, Slow Burn is my favorite. It is co-authored by Mike and Mary Dan Eades (Protein Power) so the nutritional advice is right on for lowcarb. I also think the scientific explanations are better than Power of Ten, but I have learned from both books. I the author of Slow Burn is Fred Hahn, coauthors the Eadeses.

Hope this helps. I'm out of town 'til Monday, so won't be posting until then. I'm curious - how do you feel now, after taking the day off?

Alice

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lc since 12/18/01

That is really interesting, Alice. Another book I'd like to read

Hey, do you know if there is any of the information online about this?

You know, I was a total exercise junky when I was in late high school and early college. It was after that time that I began to first experience the symptoms of adrenal fatigue. I'd never thought of it as a connection.

I can say that when I work out hard, I feel so good while doing it (runner's high, I suppose) but then I'm miserable later, especially the harder I do it.

This is all making great sense to me! Thanks for sharing and have fun at your retreat!

alice and sharon, thanks so very much for this information.
i am going to look into some of the titles you mentioned.

and the details about muscle tears and allowing time for those to heal makes perfect sense.

and yes, i am 25 years old ... so i guess i have more energy to spare than a woman who has to care for children, and perhaps a career too, or housework, gardening, etc.

i going to explore a "tweaking" method - much like we do w/ our WOE. i usually exert myself to "full blast" about 4/5 days a week. i think i'll try varying this - to see how i feel (mentally and physically).

i took the day off thursday, and it was good. i didn't obsesss about it at all. felt well rested, and was able to jump back into my exercise on friday. i think i'll start scheduling an off day each week.

thanks again for the info and support .........

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Carrie
SBD since 9/12/2005
Re-started 5/8/2006
My new journal: Just Breathe