spride-i understand what you're saying. a life-long commitment is a big thing and it's hard to say, "ok, this is it, this is what i'm going to do forever." that feels like a big deal, and i guess it is, really.

personally, i don't see it exactly that way. now that i've lost the majority of the weight i want to, i sometimes eat things that you wouldn't consider on a low-carb plan. (seriously!) the difference is that these things are few and far between, as opposed to my former way of eating, where those things were the staple of my menu. it's a choice everyday. after a while, it did stop being a diet to me, and just became "how i eat."

the reason why i choose to emphasize the lifestyle over the diet idea when i'm talking to folks is that so many people think of low carb as a good, fairly quick way to lose weight without being hungry. and it is, but if you handle it like a diet, especially a crash diet, as soon as you start moving towards your old way of eating, the weight starts to inch back on. plus, diets are about deprivation, rules, and temporary changes to behavior. lifestyle is about the choices you make most often, every day.

the other thing is that thinking of it merely as a diet to lose weight, when you enoucounter the inevitable and totally normal slowdowns and stalls, you feel like giving up. and i hate to see people do that, since when they ride it out, not only do they continue eating better, but they do generally reap the rewards of their persistance as well.

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Once again, thank you for your responses. First of all, let me emphasize that I don't plan on going back to my previous way of eating. A whole bag of cheetoes and multiple refills on sodas are a thing of the past. The new exercise regimen is definitely a habit I want to keep.

As to depriving myself, I definitely feel to a certain extent that I am. I have gone out and picked up some low-carb substitutes for simple pleasures, but that's really not what I'm referring to. It's things like good wine, Thai food, Sushi, my step mother-in-law's cooking (Martha-Stewartesque). These are a short list of the things to which I have to say no. (At least I feel I do in the weight-loss portion of my plan). Not that I'm going to Paris in the next half year, but I couldn't imagine going into a bistro and ordering nothing to drink but water and asking if they had the menu "low-carb".

But for now, I cook at home a lot more. I eat a lot more fish and salad. I'm not a bad cook. Today I made a rather large dish of low-carb Moussaka. Earlier this week, I made a Thai-style Salmon with tomatoes and yellow peppers baked in coconut milk that was excellent. When I go out with my co-workers to our traditional Mexican Friday afternoon lunch spot, I don't eat any of the tortilla chips and get a chicken fajita salad (or a cobb salad or a blackened Chicken Breast with salad instead of rice and beans).

I understand the risks of yoyo dieting. But I'm also not 100% sure it's healthy to live in ketosis all of your life. I know that consistently swinging back and forth wouldn't be good to you either.

But I also know, I won't look at a glass of OJ the same way again...

Goddess - I think I'll probably be more like you, allowing myself the occasional french bistro experience, but being "good" most of the time.
(Mustn't confuse food judgement with morality

Low carb eating does not require being in ketosis all the time or forever. There are numerous LC eating plans that don't figure in ketosis at all. As for Atkins, after induction when you start increasing carbs by 5 gm/week and judiciously add back different foods you are trying to learn what is your individual Critical Carb Level for Losing. That's the level at which you keep losing weight but not very far under the level at which your stop losing. After I was well into the OWL phase (Ongoing weight loss), I was rarely in ketosis - yet I continued to lose weight. In maintenance, I'm even more rarely in ketosis.

There are many ways to adapt non-LC cuisines into LC-acceptable versions. And, as time goes on, many of us find our tastes change. As your tastes adapt, you may find you have less desire for high carb foods. Restaurant menus usually offer a good number of LC choices - and and almost any restaurant will let you subsitute mixed veggies for rice, potatoes, or noodles.

I do the same as you at a Mexican restaurant - order fajitas and ask them to hold the beans and rice, more veggies please. With the guacamole, salsa fresca, and sour cream, it makes a great, filling meal.

The Thai-style salmon in coconut milk sounds wonderful, BTW. Er, and what is moussaka?

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~~~Teelbee
Back to GOAL!!!
start weight: 176/goal range: 137-134/now: 138
Reached goal in Aug. 2003 - 4rd year of maintenance.

Even LC tortillas can be problematic. I eat low carb totillas very rarely as I know they trigger my cravings, leading to a tendency to overeat - especially if I didn't eat a lot of other food with the tortilla. And, yeah, the hummus could do it, too. A half cup runs about 20 g net carbs. It would probably be wise to hold off on the humms until a later phase, or at least limit it to just a tablespoon or two (say, 3 g carb per TBS).

Don't worry, you will discover many other things you like to eat! That's actually one of the fun and exciting things about LC eating - discovering new foods and finding new ways to use familiar foods.

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~~~Teelbee
Back to GOAL!!!
start weight: 176/goal range: 137-134/now: 138
Reached goal in Aug. 2003 - 4rd year of maintenance.

When you give this plan time and follow the stages properly, you eventually get to add back some of the higher carb foods, in smaller portions and at longer intervals. I always allow myself a little off plan eating around the holidays, on special occasions, etc. I PLAN for them and work extra exercise in around those occasions.

When you get to your goal weight or close to it, you CAN add back certain things, as long as they make the "healthier choice" list. For instance, I am and always will be a potatoholic. I know this about myself. So, I allow myself an occasional baked red potato. I load it up with my favorite toppings AND I eat the skin. I don't do this on a regular basis. But now it's SUCH a treat, I really appreciate them.

If the Atkins plan, for instance, is given enough time to work, you eventually do add back good, whole, all be it, higher carb foods.

As for wine????? After induction you CAN have an occasional glass of dry wine. Red is the best choice because of it's healthy phytochemicals. The better choice is DRY wine. I like mine on the sweeter side, so I have been known to add a little sweetener to mine. BUT, I'm no wine connoseur, so I don't buy the expensive stuff. (It's not really my cup of tea.)

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i suppose some of it's semantics. i consider myself to be a low-carber even when, on a particular day or in a particular situation, i may make choices not consistent with an overall low-carb menu. if you're thinking the "life commitment" means never eating off-plan, then i don't know too many people (if any) who've made that one! like barb, i try to plan for my choices and, of course, do my best to know what i'm doing. it's all in the choices.

around here, it's so common for new folks (especially around this time of year) to show up and say essentially, "ok, i'm going to eat low-carb for this 25 pounds. how do i lose it as fast as possible so i can get on with my life?" they miss the point. this IS your life, you know? with or without the 25 pounds, this is your life. you can't make good choices for 2 months and expect them to carry over the rest of your life. that's kind of why when someone says, "ok, well, ill do this for X time but i don't know if i'll continue, you get these responses."

i come here to get encouragement and, hopefully, to help others. and i know those who completely abandon lc'ing after losing weight do gain it back. seen it many times over.

that's more or less where i'm coming from when i encourage the "lifestyle" approach. while i consider the changes that i've made to my eating to be permanent, it doesn't mean i _never_ make choices that aren't consistent with my overall goal. in fact, to me, adjusting that focus actuallly helps with that, because when i choose to eat off-plan, i haven't "blown" anything, broken any rules, or failed in any way. it's not some big chore to get back on plan. i integrate it into my habits, and it mean i just ate some stuff that i better not overdo unless i want to start putting on weight. that feels like a much more "normal" way of eating to me.

i'm sure as you go on, you'll find your balance if you decide to continue working with the issues involved. takes some time, patience, and letting all the new things you've learned sink in. good luck to you!

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Thank you Barb, Goddess and Teelbee.

I think I see the light a little bit now. I believe I can follow a life-style of moderation and avoiding empty carbs in the future. (while right now, I live a hard core diet). Atkins says you can drink wine after induction, but my diet plan says it's very bad. For the record, Moussaka is a Greek dish which layers eggplant, a red meat sauce and a white cream sauce with cheese. It's very yummy and easy to modify to low carb (use Garlic instead of flower and cream instead of milk in the white sauce .

here's the salmon in coconut milk recipe (found on the internet)- the tomatoes and peppers come out delicious.

4 thick salmon steaks
2.5cm/1in piece root ginger, peeled and cut into small, very thin slices
2 large cloves garlic, peeled and cut into small, very thin slices
350g/12oz tomatoes, peeled and halved
1 fresh red chilli, de-seeded and sliced as finely as possible
1 small yellow pepper, de-seeded and thinly sliced
4-6 cardamom pods, roughly crushed
400ml/14fl oz tinned coconut milk
sea salt
2 limes, juice only
handful of fresh mint leaves, chopped

Method
1. Put the fish steaks in a fairly shallow ovenproof dish with a lid, into which they fit quite closely.
2. Scatter the ginger, garlic, tomato, chilli and yellow pepper over and around the fish and the cardamom pods in between.
3. Empty the coconut milk into a separate bowl, add a good sprinkling of sea salt and gradually stir in the lime juice. Pour the mixture gently over and around the fish and cover the dish.
4. Preheat the oven to 150C/300F/Gas 2. Put the dish on the centre shelf and cook for 40-50 minutes, until the fish is lightly done. To discover this insert a small, sharp knife into the centre of one of the steaks - if the flesh is slightly darker pink in the centre it will be perfectly cooked. Remove from the oven.
5. Before serving scatter the mint leaves on top.

Oh, yuM! That recipe sounds fabulous - it's already cut/pasted into my LC recipe file. Thanks!

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~~~Teelbee
Back to GOAL!!!
start weight: 176/goal range: 137-134/now: 138
Reached goal in Aug. 2003 - 4rd year of maintenance.

WOW those recipes sound marvelous!!!!

It's GREAT you are doing hardcore induction right now. That will pay off greatly!! Just don't be afraid to move onto OWL. It will keep the boredom demons at bay.

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