With all these sugar substitutes (Splenda) etc. replacing sugar.
Other low-carb (high-priced) products replacing flour (almond flour, etc.) Zero-carb mayo and spagetti sauce (twice the price of good quality regular stuff), are we REALLY changing our eating habits, or are we just buying into a whole new (expensive) consumer's con?
It just seems that for the short period of time I've been reading this site, other than eliminating sugar, pasta, rice, bread, people are still finding substitutes for these things.

But I'm still here.

I know this WOE has stopped what I considered the true CRAVINGS. Uncontrollable need for sugar. The kind I would get up for daily and drive to a store to get a bag of candy - any kind!
I'll use a little splenda once in a while for a 'sweet taste' in something. I still 'want' a sweet periodically, but I no longer NEED it. There is a definite difference.
But I don't plan to replace one insane craving with another. This WOE has given me that chance - I have control, the sugar no longer does.
Many of the ppl on this site support staying as natural as possible - avoid the quick fix of products hitting the market these days - stay with the true concept of the WOL - and will get better results.

Mary Kay

01/02/04 - 230/220/150 Atkins
225/220/205 VDC

I completely agree with Mary Kay.
A cravings to me means needing to eat a specific food when you're not hungry. By needing, I mean have to have or else. It's nice to be able to occaisionally replace those high carb foods with a low carb version, but it's not a means to satisfy a craving. It's a means to avoid having them or triggering them.

Some people do find that even low carb substitutes and sweetners still trigger cravings. Everyone is different. That's why it's so important to eat "clean" during induction, and as long as possible, before adding any LC substitutes so you can easily tell what foods will be a problem for you.



Always eat your veggies first!
LCE member since March 2002

I'm not that worried about sweet cravings. It's the CARB-cravings.

Carbs are like a powerful drug. That's even more true for us that are obese from eating too many carb-laden foods. The carbs in these foods give us a familiar rush and feeling of satisfaction that we don't get as easily from proteins and fats. The sugar-rush also rewards us with an increase in brain levels of serotonin, a neurotransmitter associated with mellowness and sense of well-being. Those are powerful rewards that reinforce negative behavior.

That's why giving up carbs can be soooooo hard, especially for people starting a low-carb diet. You'll often hear people saying they miss the taste of potatoes, for instance. Well, think about that! Potatoes are one of the blandest, most tasteless foods you can eat. People can't really miss the TASTE of potatoes. It's the rush from the carbs that they miss, the sense of satisfaction, that familiar reward that our reptile brain doesn't like to give up.

In that sense, I think artificial sweeteners are a good thing. Over the course of a long time on a low-carb diet, we deny our greedy little short-sighted reptile brain the normal association it expects between sweets and satisfaction. It helps us regain our power over these things.

I've been clean for a good long time now. The longer you're clean, the easier it gets. I think this is because we lose that Pavlovian behavioral conditioning that we used to have that connected food with the satisfaction of higher blood sugar.

**************
"Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to. Then on the way out, slam the door."

Doc, you're so right. It's not the sugar so much as the craving for high carb foods. I use splenda in my coffee, but even coffee has become an occasional indulgence rather than a daily routine. I've only been at this 4 weeks, but eating clean has definitely eliminated those overpowering cravings I used to have for crap like donuts and big macs. I still have the cravings, but it is so easy now for me to resist. I couldn't say that 4 weeks ago.

As for the substitutes for flour, tomato sauces and the like, I have no plans of adding them to my menus right now. I'm thinking once I reach maintenence, I'll allow myself very occasional "real" stuff like pasta with spaghetti sauce. Maybe...

Cherub
304/284/160
5'9"
Started Atkins 01/04/04

I agree with Dr. I. Many of us have inadvertantly been controlling our mood for years with carbs, without knowing it....

I'm not sure, however, that we ever really lose that conditioning. Certainly it becomes easier if we stay clean, but these types of pathways are hardwired into the brain. We can make other pathways by making consistent choices over time, but the old ones don't disappear, just fade. The reptilian brain remembers all, and is waiting......



BC
172/108/108--5'2"
Zone since 4/98

I have used regular ragu--has 6gs of carbs and the low carb pasta when I was feeding my family spaghetti--my daughter's favorite food since she was less than year old. I have only been on this WOE since 5 Jan and last night I ignored my desire to join my husband and daughter for pretzels and drinks after Chuckie Cheese (I o nly had a salad). I instead looked at new shoes--which I need anyway and wasn't even frustrated not to get one--I have yet to crave a piece of cake or cookies. A first for me--part of it is having success and seeing it and feeling it and knowing this is the way I can diminish my PCOS symptoms but part of it is I am just not jungry for them anymore--though don't get me wrong--I LOVE oreo cookies with milk!

Great Answers so far,

I have to agree with what's been written.

When I first started this woe I still felt empty even after eating a huge meal. Now I understand I was missing the drugged feeling I would get after eating Bad Carbs.

I eat clean most of the time; however, for psychlogical reasons I like to have the option of LC Cereal& Milk, a Russel Stover chocolate, etc. I have these these but rarely eat them. But I know they are there. Because I have the choice I don't NEED them.

My drink of choice is water. Do I have Diet rite in house? Yes. Choice is freedom to me.

Do I eat more vegatables than I've ever eaten in my life? Yes

I have decided that my health and well being is worth any trade offs in time or money. Each of us has to decide if its worth it.

For me, the KNOWLEDGE is the most important aspect of this WOE - without it, anyone trying to follow low carb is probably dismally doomed.

I have become a devout label-reader. If it says "partially hydrogenated" or "hydrogenated" or "fractionated" or "high fructose corn syrup" - I don't CARE how low-carb it may be, back it goes. Now, I realize that "eating clean" means you probably don't SEE that kind of label because meats (except processed) and veggies (ditto) don't HAVE those things, ever, in their natural state.

I do occasionally buy convenience foods for exactly that reason - convenience. I do have a drawer full of a variety of Russell Stover's sugarfree candies. They last me months.

So there is room for some of this stuff on a LC WOE, it's up to the individual to decide what is or isn't important and even more, what is and isn't WORKING for them.

Oh yeah, and I certainly DO NOT consider almond flour a "bad substitute" - I mean, it's ALMONDS, that's all - mixed up with some wheat bran, flax meal, eggs, cream, and DV syrup it makes some awesome pancakes and I can't see how THAT is a bad substitute for what I used to eat in the way of pancakes! JMHO of course and YMMV!

Char

Don't squat with yer spurs on!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>are we REALLY changing our eating habits, or are we just buying into a whole new (expensive) consumer's con? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The danger is certainly there. With the onslaught of new lc products that are showing up, the danger does exist of replacing old bad eating habits with new bad eating habits. You can make up your entire menu with lc "fakes", stay under your carb limit, and lose weight. But have you gotten healthier and re-educated your body? I don't think so.

I don't think that replacing pasta with spaghetti squash, sugar with Splenda, soda with water, and potatoes with cauliflower is going to do me any harm, and has, in fact, done me alot of good. Charski's right, ground almonds are good for me, and giving up flour is, too. I, for the first time in my life, really THINK about what I'm eating and it's effect on me. I balance my meals, eat lots of veggies, calculate my protein; all stuff I never did before.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the con only works if you don't know what is good for you, and blindly buy this stuff just because the label calls it low carb. I keep the candy and snack foods as just very occasional treats, not a mainstay of my diet. That behavior is what got me in trouble to begin with; I'm not going to fall back into that pattern if I can help it.

Cooking is at once child's play and adult joy.
And cooking done with care is an act of love.
- Craig Claiborne

A few months ago I would have laughed if someone has suggested replacing my spaghetti with something other than another pasta--and here I am looking for ways to remove all the "garbage foods" from my pantry and refridgerator. I bought a package of the LC Peanut Butter cups the first day I started on this WOE, I still have almost 1/2 of them and two months ago I would have been on my 3rd or 4th bag at a minimum--now I don't even crave them for the most part and only one or two cure that desire. I have a stack of the chips--agian for when celery or broccoli won't cure the crunchy munchies--sunflower seeds work great for that crunch with salt too--I have yet to be able to finish a serving of shelled sunflower seeds but I could finish a whole bag of potato chips with roughly the same amount of salt and about 100 times the carbs--3 per serving of "seeds" about 30 per serving of chips. So I agree, the trade offs are amazing and yes I have Splenda in the house--I have diet soda in the house--I have a few Atkins substitutes for things like snack bars and candy bars, but I don't see them as replacing a craving with another. I see it as replacing something unhealthy with something healthy.

I bought groceries, something I haven't done since right after Thanksgiving--cost me $300 but I got a whole lot more for that cost than I did for the same $300 in December. It about didn't fit in the kitchen this time--and all of it is unprocessed, "real" food. Steaks, chicken legs, pork chops, spaghetti squash, broccoli, cauliflower, cheese, lettuce, carrots, snow peas, almonds, sunflower seeds, peanuts, cucumbers, water, I can go on but a typical grocery list before included things like ramen noodles (24 packages), boxed meals, 2-3 cases of pop--full sugar Dr. Pepper), corn, peas and boxed potatos, gravy, lots of hamburger and hamburger helper, tuna and tuna helper, macaroni and cheese. . .does anyone else see the difference??? Why didn't someone tell me salad was more of a convenience food than mac n cheese or ramen noodles???? I can prepare it faster than either of those favorites. . .it takes the same time to fry a steak as it does to crumble and fry hamburger and then I had to wait another 20-30 for the meal to be done and while the steak is frying I can also steam the veggies, melt the cheese on and eat sooner than with the convenience foods we used to eat. The only thing really faster was the boxed meals--and they often got left (at least part of them) because they tasted awful.

My mom asked about a thousand questions when I told her I was going to do this WOE and the one she kept coming back to was won't you go hungry with all the things you can't eat??? I think the list of things I can have is longer than the list I can't and all my favorite things are on this one except Spaghetti and baked potatos--I haven't found a substitute for potatos but I certainly have for spaghetti--the LC spaghetti isn't too bad, but the squash is better and healthier too. The only thing I really didn't give up is my topping for the squash--Ragu meat flavored spaghetti sauce (I always fry a pound of hamburger into it anyway because I like the meat in it and because my mom always did the same thing and it doesn't have an outrageous number of cargs (6).

In short, I really think we are giving up sugar cravings!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Are we really giving up sugar cravings?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm still trying to find away to give up sugar cravings. I still have them. I don't think they'll ever go away. It happens about 5 minutes after I eat a meal...every time. I truly think it has something to do with my insulin levels spiking after I eat. If I wait say, an hour....sometimes four hours...they go away.

And, sometimes they don't.

I think it's just me. I just hafta suck it up and not eat it. Sometimes I just hafta go to bed and then when I wake up in the morning, the cravings have gone.

April
352/209/180
Down 143 pounds
29 to go...
http://www.geocities.com/aprilwyatt/beforeandafter

I have been concerned as well with the huge rush of new LC packaged foods. So often I have seen on the package Hydrogenated stuff. That I know is not good for me and I have found other things to eat instead. My problem in the past has been we need to eat low calorie and that meant low taste or sweet. Now I eat for taste. It makes the WOE so easy because what I eat has wonderful tastes. It has been so easy to stay on this WOE with just the occasionally eating or drinking other things. Sometimes when I eat out it is hard if I don't want a salad but I know how to substitute and make it as LC as possible.

travellost-51 yrs Young
1/20/03 195/145 first time
1/5/04 second time
150/147.5/135
"I am allergic to carbs they make me break out in fat"

Some people dream of greatness, I dream of cookies, and I live for the day that someone will invent that perfectly chewy, smooth, dark chocholate cookie with 0 carbos and 10 calorie for 20 cookies full of proteins and vitamins
Yes April, that day will come and we will be forever happy!
and I dont' care if it's fake.
I have been on this program since 11/06/03 and I constantly have to ask myself if something is carbohydrate worthy, I feel good and I'm doing well but boy! do I miss sweets. Any help?
Rainbow

I'm not sure why you're missing sweets when there are so many you can make! Try the recipe section for ideas. I use the sugar free syrups to make a lot of things, including mousse, italian sodas, smoothies, etc. I haven't missed sweet things at all, because you can still have them.