I've read a great many posts on here in the last few days insisting that staying on induction for longer than the first two weeks is actually 'harmfull'.

I think one of the reasons it's hard for 'newbies' to jump off of induction and into owl is that the atkins site itself advocates staying ON the induction level as long as you need if you have a great deal of weight to loose, and are not bored with it.

I'm not knocking the evidence presented by the posters here suggesting that it's not good to stay on induction longer than 2 weeks, but perhaps you should present your arguments to the main atkins site so they can investigate the claims as well and stop saying it's a good thing to continue.

Here is the link for the main article on the Atkins site that advocates remaining on the induction level, as well as a few highlighted excerpts of that article:

Are you ready to move beyond induction

A lot of people think of Induction as lasting only two weeks, but it can be followed for a longer time. If you have a lot of weight to lose or have difficulty losing weight, you might want to do Induction for quite a while. That way you'll see dramatic progress before moving on to the more moderate phases of the program.

A young, active man who loses weight easily may chose to move to OWL after two weeks, while a menopausal woman who has high metabolic resistance may chose to stay on the strictest phase until she gets close to her goal weight. The decision is yours alone and is another example of how much individualization is possible on Atkins.

315/301/150 (Started 8/17/03)

Horsemom,

While the Atkins Center site supports extended Induction, several years of anecdotal evidence (and a reading of Dr. Atkins' books) shows that staying in Induction past the 14 days can make it more difficult to raise carb levels to a "liveable" level.

I carried on a rather extended discussion with a CSR at atkinscenter.com. She informed me that the site was going to stick by its recommendation, even though it appeared to be contrary to the good doctor's writings and anecdotal evidence.

We at LowCarbEating.com stand by encouraging people to move past Induction-level carbs after the 14th Day, because we see people (including ourselves) having better weight loss experiences once they increase good carbs (legal vegetables, low-glycemic fruits).

PLEASE NOTE: We cannot TELL anyone what to do. What we recommend is based on, in many cases, years and years of experience as low carbers. We acknowledge that every person is different, and each low carber must find the right mix for them. We do know that there are several causes for stalls, and that staying on Induction is one of them. That is why we encourage people to get off Induction and introduce more good carbs for GOOD HEALTH.

Emelia

"We can only learn to love by loving." - Iris Murdoch, Irish writer
294/208/174 since 25-Nov-01

While i have known a few folks who could NOT add in carbs during their weight loss due to a very low LLC, the majority of low carbers do much better with their weight loss once they start adding in more healthy carbs.

Having been on the WOE for 4 yrs and having been on many messages boards - I've seen it so many times; where folks will say that they stayed on Induction like carbs cuz they read it was OK - even though they no longer were losing weight.. then as soon as they added in more carbs, including more veggies, some low GI fruits and grains -- they began steadily losing again.

But - as Emila pointed out, we all have to find what works best for ourselves, as we all react differently to carbohydrates.

Terese
LCE Member since 12/00
LCE Moderator since 3/01
My LC web site

[This message was edited by Terese on 09-01-03 at 11:51 AM.]

Is there a next step list? I know the Atkins book lists berries and stuff but what kind of veggies and grains or nuts should be added?

Fall 2002- 193
LC since August 2003
183/176/150

After a year and a half of responding to hundreds of stalled and frustrated low carbers, I agree with Em and Terese. Move out of induction level of cabs as soon as possible. The problem most low carbers have, in my obinion, is that when they first add in more carbs, they add in the wrong kind. More often than not, this is the reason they don't continue to lose weight. The first carbs added back should be additional LC veggies, bringing you up to 4-5 servings of veggies a day, minimum. What the typical LCer does is start adding LC breads, fruits, etc. -replacing the LC veggies, even the ones they should be having during induction.
As far as how long induction should last, during one of the last interviews given by Dr. Atkins, he suggested that induction could last as little as 4-5 days.

Star, here's some info on which foods to add after induction:
Ongoing Weight Loss



Always eat your veggies first!

Horsemom,

We are not trying to be *argumentative* or refute the Atkins' official site, but we are not related to their site.
We do not *have to* agree with their recommendations.

We advise people here based on our own personal experiences in following this woe (way of eating).
I have been eating this way for almost 2 years.
I have been familiar with and studying this woe for almost 6! My first *attempt* was nearly 6 years ago through a LC medical weightloss clinic.
The reason WHY we advise people this way is because (as mentioned above) we have the EXPERIENCE of seeing (and knowing first-hand) what extended induction can do to one's way of life.
It's not our *job* to tell the Atkins' site what to print or advise.
It's our *job* to offer real, helpful, and practical advice to the newbies on this site. It's up the newbies to decide whether or not to follow it...

Without trying to sound too cynical, might I also point out that the Atkins' site recommends the protein bars and candies as regular staples of your low-carb menu? That is another area in which I disagree AND which the late, good doctor himself did not seem to agree on. Those things are full of *hidden carbs* and so we advise people to use them in moderation or not at all.
Since the Atkins' center sells them, of course they are going to promote them.
It's up to each individual dieter to asses the information they have been given and decide what they will believe or follow. We cannot make those choices for you.
But I feel it is MY RESPONSIBILITY as a moderator on this site AND as a long-term low-carber to warn others of the mistakes I have made (and learned from).
That is what I strive to do.

I hope that makes sense.
Summer
www.herstorygirl.com

[This message was edited by Lawbooks on 09-01-03 at 01:15 PM.]

I am sorry if I came off as argumentative. Rather I was pointing out why many newbies like myself might be inclined to believe that it's not only okay, but good to stay on the induction level.

I can also see where someone might 'misunderstand' the owl and add the wrong kind of carbs.

315/301/150 (Started 8/17/03)

Oh, no, horsemom! I wasn't accusing YOU of being argumentative, but rather was clarifying that WE were not arguing with you.

Yes, OWL can be confusing which is why we insist people read the book and ask questions here. It's confusing and a little scary to move past induction, but it really is best.

Good luck to you,

Summer :0)

You know, this is the second time since I've joined lowcarbeating.com that I have seen people handle a potentially explosive situation in a totally adult, understanding, supportive manner!!

On other boards I used to frequent, people got their nose out of joint at the drop of a hat and a topic would turn into a "flame-fest" so easily. That does NOT seem to happen here (or on the old boards) and I for one would really like to commend everyone for sticking to the topics, offering advice, and just plain being SUPPORTIVE of one another!

What a great place to call HOME! You guys and gals ROCK!

Char

Don't squat with yer spurs on!

Char,

you are correct - many of the 20k members of this board came from other sites, myself included, only to call this one HOME.

we have the best bunch of supporters on the internet, right on this board.

and as for the topic, i was one who stayed on Induction a long time.. about 8 weeks IIRC - and really wish i didnt, but we didnt have a lot of the knowledge back the, like we have now

Terese
LCE Member since 12/00
LCE Moderator since 3/01
My LC web site

Thanks for bringing up this topic.. I too was a bit confused. I have been LCing for 6 weeks and have not moved to OWL because of what I read in the Atkins book.. I asked the operator of our local health food store (Atkins Center) and she also said to stay at 20 carbs per day until I was closer to my goal weight. I have stalled at 11 pounds and think that maybe now I should start to add carbs each week...

I love this place.. so many great people, with lots of experince.

Marg

Let me add my $.01 worth. I too, stayed on induction for over 3 months only to stall big time. It was only after great advice from everyone here that I tried adding carbs and voila, I started losing again.
I read the book and figured it was ok to stay on induction. It did not work for me and the advice I got here was heaven sent.
Also this is a very supportive site and I appreciate that everyone's input is valued.
Shortie19
224+/201.5/130
Since 1/1/03

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Don't squat with yer spurs on!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also suggest not eating yellow snow. Though, it might have ketones....

(sorry, couldn't resist...)

Cheers!
Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor
7/20/03 - 244/217/185
Visit Llarion's Lair!
- Do not meddle in the affiars of dragons; for you are crunchy; and go well with ketchup