I am curious if anyone has heard about this: My DH has battled with severe depression for most of his life and controls it with medications. He and I have been on Atkins since 8/1 and since then he’s taken a “mental” dive. He went to his psychiatrist to see if he needed a meds adjustment and the first thing the doc noticed was how much weight he’d lost (25 pounds the first month). His doc was happy he was losing weight and had no problems with Atkins, he was VERY concerned about the affect LC weight loss has on the brain function and depression (primarily the serotonin). He said there are many studies being done right now that show conclusive evidence that LC diets CAN exacerbate depression in some people, especially when weight loss is too fast like his. Anybody heard of this?

Kellie, F38
Started Atkins 8/1/03 (off and on for the last few years but sticking to it this time!)
206/195/160 -- 8.5 inches GONE!

I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but my DH suffers from mild to seasonally moderate depression. He actually does much BETTER on low carb than he does otherwise.

I would suppose it's a very individualized thing - what works for one, may not for another. I'm glad to hear he is under a doctor's care and supervision though - many meds need to be adjusted when low-carbing, and I wouldn't be at all surprised about antidepressants being one of them! I would bet that it will improve in time though.

Wow, 25 pounds in one month - that IS fast!

Char

Don't squat with yer spurs on!

Kellie, make sure he is eating enough. Sometimes when we are in ketosis and losing lots of weight, the appetite diminishes. Without really realizing it he may not be eating enough. Get those veggies in there because those are good, legal carbs.

First and foremost, he should continue consulting his physician.

Kellie...welcome and congrats on you and your dh's success!

Hopefully I can give you some encouragement...my father has bipolar disorder (manic/depression). He has now stayed out of depression longer than I ever remember, now that he is LC'ing! After much reading and research, I am convinced there is definitely a link between insulin and the other hormones/brain chemicals. Hence, as his insulin levels have stabilized, his other chemicals have stabilized also??!! I hope your dh's doc is able to adequately adjust his meds..hopefully this is just a time of adjustment for him and the end result will be less meds, of course at his doctor's direction.
I wonder if those studies relate it to ketosis. Maybe he could try upping his carbs so he is still low-carbing and losing weight, but out of ketosis.
Hmmm...something to think about...

Please keep us posted!
Lori

Physician Assistant
Full-time mother of 3 boys
Started 2/13/02
50 lbs gone forever!
The joy of the Lord is my strength (and boy do I need it)!!

Kellie, did your husband, pre-Atkins, eat carbs extensively?

172/108/108
Zone since 4/98

[This message was edited by BC on 09-02-03 at 10:42 PM.]

Kellie... I am not a doctor but suffer from Depression and over time here are some of the things I've learned. There are two kinds of chemicals in the brain that can trigger depression: Seratonin and Dopamine. People who have seratonin issues take the Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs: Prozac, Zoloft, etc.), people who have Dopamine issue (like I do) take meds like Wellbutrin. I have found that I need fewer Wellbutrin LCing.

So perhaps those two different chemical problems respond differently to the changes in insulin, etc. Unlike your DH, low carb makes me feel MUCH better - in part perhaps because proteins energize the body. Carbohydrates relax the body (the "glass of milk before bed to help sleep" is from the sugars/lactose). It's the reason a low carb lunch can keep you motoring through the afternoon at work while your coworkers who had the pizza are fighting to keep from putting their heads on the desks for a nap.

Having the doctor keep an eye on the meds is important - remember that losing weight affects all the body's functions including the chemical balances... he may need to have meds adjusted now and as his body continues to lose weight at a slower pace it will adjust itself and fall back into sync with the changes in chemical needs.

Good, good luck and please wish him much encouragement from all of us - his weight loss is terrific and I'll bet that once his chemical system has caught up with his weight loss he will be able to re-adjust again to lower med levels.

Hugs,
Rachel
165/142/130
Haec trutina errat. (Latin for,"There is something wrong with this scale".)

Kellie,

You may want to read up on Dr. Schwarzbein. She has 2 books out I believe. She talks about depression. Just my theory, but when you start cleansing the body of toxic garbage, you may get some negative side effects to start out with. This diminishes with time as the body, the liver in particular, rids itself of all the toxic crap that has been stored up in the fats cells and liver. He's off to a fantastic start, and I hope he can ride it out (you too) and get through the detox stage and move on to better health, maybe even get off those drugs eventually.

Just my .02



Barb
Atkins-3/14/03
174/151/135
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Everyone: thank you SO much for your replies and insight. I showed my DH the posts last night and he gave me the upper eyebrow with a long “hmmm.” Well, we had some other discouraging news yesterday, though. My husband would be classified as a walking time bomb. He is 45, 6’ and had starting weight of 285 (now 260). He doesn’t drink or smoke (never has), but has high blood pressure (controlled by meds), debilitating heartburn (controlled by meds), and fairly high cholesterol (also controlled by meds). Off of Atkins, he is a sugar addict of the worst kind. When he is on Atkins, he is on top of the world and has a LOT of energy. In June, he had to have his gallbladder taken out because of some pretty nasty stones. After realizing that the stones were probably a result of a lifetime of overindulging, he wanted to go back on Atkins. Okay, you got the picture and throw in depression and you have a tough nut to crack (no pun intended). Because of his depression returning and as a follow up to gallbladder surgery, they did a bunch of blood tests. His cholesterol is up (from 142 to 199), HDL is down, and LDL is elevated. His liver function is high still even after the gallbladder surgery. We are worried. I am not too knowledgeable about medicine, but am wondering if his weekly binges combined with Atkins could do this? I can’t control him and I worry terribly about him, and the only thing I can do is to show by example how being dedicated to this WOE is beneficial to my health (my last cholesterol was 299!!!).

Whew...that was exhausting.

Kellie, F38
Started Atkins 8/1/03 (off and on for the last few years but sticking to it this time!)
206/195/160 -- 8.5 inches GONE!

[I wish I could get a bigger edit box than this to type in... Any ideas?]

About the serotonin, yes, it's true. Your doctor is smarter than my doctor if he knew that. I haven't read Schwarzbein, but from what I understand, it may discuss some of this. A lot of the really important research in the area of insulin and serotonin was done by Dr. Judith Wurtman, a heavy-duty biochemist at MIT. You can find some of her papers on the net.

I have problems with depression. My experience has been similar to your husband's in some ways. I feel very stimulated on the diet, but when first starting it, it can be overstimulating and depressing. This diet reduces the amount of L-tryptophan getting to the brain, which means that your brain has to work with less serotonin, an important neurotransmitter associated with good sleep patterns, mellowness, and a sense of well-being.

My experience is that you get over it within the first 8 weeks. That might surprise some people, but that is just how it has been for me, and I'm not sure it completely goes away. However, I take anti-depressants even when I'm not on the diet, so it doesn't bother me that much. And the trade-off seems to be worth it in terms of greater energy and sense of health.

There are some things you can do to raise serotonin levels without going off the diet. One is to take SSRI anti-depressants (Duh...) The other is to eat turkey, which is the meat richest in L-trytophan.

Judith Wurtman has recommended (and this is sort of off-the-diet) drinking a high-carb drink before bed to get a brief insulin and then serotonin spike. It might be possible to fake something like this on one of the less stringent low-carb plans like Zone or CAD by eating some fruit before bed. But I'd prefer to recommend the turkey first. And just waiting to get used to it.

About the LDL/HDL... I don't know about that, but most of the studies show that this diet will raise your total cholesterol while improving your cholesterol ratios and triglycerides, a situation usually beneficial. Perhaps you can just wait a couple of months to see how that blood work turns out and if it's still unsatisfactory and your husband wants to keep doing the diet, go to a cholesterol lowering drug.

Wow, Kellie, I'm sorry to hear of his latest test results! Is he STILL, at this point, binging weekly?

You cannot control what another person does. I watch my DH make poor choices sometimes (he's also a sugar addict - LOVES those damned bakery iced cookies and that's what he CHOOSES to binge on, but very seldom) and I know there is nothing I can do to keep him from it if he makes up his mind.

One thing I've noticed, though, is that he chooses to do it less and less frequently as he sticks closer to the Atkins WOL.

I had a talk with him not too long ago, not sure if THIS made an impact also - but I told him, "Hey, let's make sure to get our wills in order, because if you die young due to overweight I'd like to be sure everything is in order." Very matter-of-fact, not accusatory - I think he put a lot of thought into that because he's been more careful lately.

He also had to have a thallium treadmill test recently, because a routine physical at his doctor's showed up something questionable on an EKG. Turns out it was nothing, but again, it put him into the "I am not immortal after all!" mindset and he's been much better as far as what he puts into his mouth, foodwise, since then.

I dunno - sometimes it takes a two-by-four upside the head to get our attention!

And if he IS still binging, I'd say it's entirely possible to get those kind of results even if he IS on Atkins most of the time - every time he binges like that he is releasing TONS of insulin into his bloodstream.

I wish him well and hope he finds his way clear to eat for health......

Hugs!
Char

Don't squat with yer spurs on!

Hi again Kellie...pheww is right! But what struck me as you listed his medical problems is this: they should ALL improve on this WOL(way of life)!! The other thing that hit me is that he must be taking a bunch of meds (which have their own side affects!)...hopefully as he continues on this WOL he will be slowly tapered off of all or most of them!! Reason enough to stay on this WOE (way of eating)!! My dad has been tapered down off of his cholesterol and BP meds (as many others have) and he is down to needing almost no insulin (and this is a guy who had huge insulin requirements).

Don't worry too much about the lab results...if his gallbladder was really in bad shape, it may take awhile to get his liver enzymes to come back down. (The other thing to consider is that some cholesterol/BP meds can make liver enzymes go up too.) As far as this WOE, I would suspect it last as far as causing any of those problems or making them worse. In fact that change in cholesterol is not much, and some people do have slight rises in the early stages of Atkins before they start seeing all the numbers improve in 6-12 months, often drastically. Be ready for a terrific improvement in the triglyceride level too...it is now being said to be even more important in assessing one's cardiac risk than chol. levels!!

Hang in there Kellie and Kellie's dh!! You will be amazed how many health benefits you are reaping!!

Best wishes,
Lori

Physician Assistant
Full-time mother of 3 boys
Started 2/13/02
50 lbs gone forever!
The joy of the Lord is my strength (and boy do I need it)!!

Yup, his doctor told him that the Lipitor is probably messing with his liver. But, they are more worried about his cholesterol so they upped it. It's funny, he gets worried about what the doctor says, but when I show him the support and advice we are getting from LCE, he feels much better. I think he would do anything to go off his meds (except for the ones for his depression). He promised himself that he'd have no more binges for one month. It's a mini-goal, but I think with my support he can do it. I love the guy too much to let him sink without my constant "nagging." It's not nagging, it's love! Hehehe.

Thank you -- everyone -- for your help. This is obviously a subject that is close and personal to me!!!

<<<<hugs>>>>

Kellie, F38
Started Atkins 8/1/03 (off and on for the last few years but sticking to it this time!)
206/194/160 -- 9.5 inches GONE! (as of 9/3)

Uhh Kellie, I really debated with myself on how to respond to your last post. I myself would hesitate to keep taking (let alone increase) a medication that may be having effects on my liver (especially if my cholesterol was only 199...that is actually pretty good), but I would NEVER tell anyone to go against their doctor's advice...he may have very specific reasons he wants him on this medication. But it is OK to ask questions...there are many other cholesterol-lowering drugs out there. It may be worth a phone call to the doctor to see if there is anything else he would consider putting him on. Remember too, these numbers will surely improve in the next few months if he continues on this WOE.

What does he usually binge on?? We may be able to help with "better" things to binge on if it is certain foods he really wants.

And yes, it is definitely love

HTH (hope this helps!)

{{Hugs back at ya both}}
Lori

Physician Assistant
Full-time mother of 3 boys
Started 2/13/02
50 lbs gone forever!
The joy of the Lord is my strength (and boy do I need it)!!

kellie, there are several different drugs out there to treat high cholesterol. Maybe his doctor can try something else. My dh was on lipitor for almost a year and he developed depression after he'd been taking it for about a month. Since he's someone who's never depressed (he's one of those dreaded chirpy morning people), it was very noticable. His doctor told him was that besides headaches, depression was turning out to be one of the most common side effect, one that hadn't been noticed in the trials.



Always eat your veggies first!

Lori: He would never go off any of his meds without talking with his doctor -- and I agree...it scares me, too. Because of the combination of meds he is on, both his psychiatrist and his Internal Med guy are in communication and they are monitoring him by doing monthly blood checks. They feel his liver function is up because of the Lipitor and his gallbladder removal. It's not up too much, just enough to pay attention. And what does he binge on? Pure sugar: icecream and cake.

Brightlady: Very, very interesting. He was on Pravacol for a while, but it wasn't helping. I am just hoping that this WOE will allow him to go off of them all together once he regulates things a bit.

Sigh...it's never easy is it?

Kellie, F38
Started Atkins 8/1/03 (off and on for the last few years but sticking to it this time!)
206/194/160 -- 9.5 inches GONE! (as of 9/3)