OK. I know patience is important. But I have been unable to break through the 206 lb brick wall! Today is the last day of the first 6 weeks of the diet. At week 2, I had stalled at 206 lbs, 9 pounds down. At first that seemed amazing. But now I'm seriously considering quitting because it just isnt' working any more. How can I go for an entire month and not lose an ounce...or an inch!? I have carefully counted my carbs and have not gone above 20 grams per day. For example, yesterday came out to about 17.5. There was the one exception at week 3 when a once-in-a-lifetime event occurred, and I went off-plan for 3 days. But other than that, it has been very strict. I hit that 206 wall and just sit there. I don't understand it. I'm going to give it one more week. If I don't see any movement in that time, I'm probably quitting.

Ken

Although it sounds counterproductive, it's probably time to go beyond 20 grams of carbs per day. Many people here have found that adding a few more carbs actually gets them losing again.

My stalls last months, but I'm committed to sticking with this woe because I'm the healthiest I've been since I was a teenager, even though I still have a lot to lose.

Keep experimenting, evaluating your food choices, keep trying. Even if you never lose another ounce, this is a wonderful way to maintain good health.

I hope you find what's best for you.

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Nita

Ken,
Nita is right that you should probably add in some more carbs. Those carbs should come from more LC veggies, LC berries such as strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, and even nuts such as almonds, pecans, walnuts. The thing for me with the nuts, is I do have to measure them out...they are high calorie and fat dense and sometimes it's hard to stop munching on them, if you know what I mean.

Also, please humor us and post a typical days menu with approximations of what you eat. Sometimes, folks consume hidden carbs they were totally unaware of.

Also, are you on any meds that could be *slowing* you down? Another thought is if you are within 20-25 lbs of your goal, sometimes, those last 20 just go SLOW.
Are you drinking your water??? Adding in exercise???
I really, really think you may be in *starvation* mode.

Please do NOT throw in the towel. You can work through this.

HTH
Shelley

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Shelley
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Visit Kassie's Korner



Life deserves a treat now and again, but life also deserves being healthy[with required disipline] to make it worth living!

OK. As requested, here is a typical day's menu:

2 eggs (omelette) with a 1/4 cup shredded cheddar in: 2.4 carbs
3 sausage links: 0 carbs
2 cheddar cheese sticks: 1 carb
1 string cheese stick: 0 carbs
4 slices (1"x4") of aged cheddar: 0 carbs (Kerrygold brand contains no carbs)
6 mini-burgers from HEB supermarket (ea. about 2" diam.): 1 carb
1 salad (spinach/romaine/brocoli slaw/sunflower seeds/almond accents/bacon bits/bacon ranch dressing: 5 carbs (I measured)
1 small bowl of home-made ice cream: about 2 carbs per serving
2 servings (measured) of dry roasted peanuts: 6 carbs

That comes out to about 18 grams of carbs.

As for sticking with this, I do like the foods I get to eat. But at this stage, it seems even one high carb splurge (We went to see Shrek III last weekend and I had popcorn) sems to knock me up by 2 or 3 pounds! There are certain foods I just can't go the rest of my life not eating, and popcorn is one of them. Pasta is another, and bread another. I crave these things sometimes (especially if I'm at the movies...popcorn is a must).

About upping my carbs...that's definitely happening (but not in the suggested way). Tonight my wife and I are going out to dinner for our 19th wedding anniversary. I'm SO not staying on plan. She doesn't like to eat carbs in front of me even when I say it's OK. I'm not doing that to her tonight. Then we have a bit of a vacation coming up Thursday-Sunday, for our neice's wedding. I will try to stay on plan, but I think it will be tough when I don't have all my foodstores around me. We'll see.

Regarding how close to my goal I am...I am exactly 26 pounds from my goal. Maybe I can fool my brain and change my goal to 170 instead of 180!.

Ken

Ken, I truly hope you do not give up on this WOL. It has its benefits, besides the weight loss. You are correct, you will gain when you eat high carb foods after doing the l/c thing. It is usually only water weight gain which will pass. I haven't had REAL pasta in over two years. Sure, I miss it, but I firmly believe the advantages of staying away from those things certainly outweigh a "moment of pleasure" for me. (My mother and father were both born in Italy so you can imagine how much pasta was a part of my life growing up.)

You probably do, as Nita has said, need to up your carbs with l/c veggies or berries. I wish you much luck and I hope you will stick around for the long run. So sweet of your wife to be so supportive.

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196/135-135

Ken,
I just ran your menu through Fitday and this is what I came out with:

2,662 calories
199g fat
176g pro
39g carb
11g fiber
28g net carbs

I believe this to be pretty close.
One thing I see is I think you are consuming to much cheese. Dr Atkins says limit to 3-4 oz daily, and it looks like you could possibly be eating around 6 oz? That is assuming each of your cheese sticks(3 total) are 1 oz, and the 4 slices of aged cheddar would be around 2oz, the 1/4 c in the omlet is 1 ounce.

Assuming the mini burgers are 2 oz each, and are lean ground beef, then that is 12 oz of beef, for 906 calories.

Dr Atkins also says no nuts or seeds during induction. That is a hard rule to follow, I know.
2T sunflower seeds have 3 net carbs/90 calories.
0.5 oz of almonds have 2 net carbs/86 calories. There is 5 carbs in the salad and that's not counting the lettuce, veggies and salad dressing.

I don't know what ingredients are in your homemade icecream, but if you made it with heavy cream and splenda, it will be pretty calorie and fat dense as well.

Peanuts: I'm assuming by 2 servings you mean 2 ounces? If so, 2 oz of peanuts are 7 net carbs and 332 calories.

I know we are not supposed to have to keep track of calories, but for some of us, calories matter, alot...and I happen to be one of those folks! (darn it!)

So....this is how I might re-work your menu:

2 egg omlet with veggies...left over broccoli, a few pepper strips, 1/2 oz cheddar, 2 sausage links either chopped up in the omlet or on the side.

snack: 1 HB egg, deviled OR 1 string cheese

lunch: do enjoy a large salad...omit the nuts OR seeds, try some chicken breast strips, and be mindful of how much dressing you use. 2 sf jello gelatin snack cups if you so desire.

snack: 1 slice cheese or a chicken drumstick or pork rinds with 2T ranch dip

dinner: 6-8 oz protein(beef, fish,poultry), salad greens to measure 2 cups, again, mindful of the dressing, and another LC veggie...broccoli, cauli, asparagus, green beans, steamed and topped with a dab of butter, or oven roasted with olive oil.
dessert: 2 sf jello snack cups with 1T of splenda sweetened sour cream on each cup.

I do not see the need for you to *re-do* induction. Perhaps you can start tomorrow at 25 carbs, and remain there for a week and see how it goes.
This WOE is a journey and there will be times(like tonight) you will need to detour off the road. That's OK. Keep the destination in mind and travel as closely as you can to the *road map* and you will be a happier person for it, I truly believe.
Good luck to you...and a very Happy Anniversary!

HTH
Shelley

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Shelley
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Visit Kassie's Korner



Life deserves a treat now and again, but life also deserves being healthy[with required disipline] to make it worth living!

Wow, Shelley. That was a lot of work. Though I'm not sure why you get 10 more carbs than I get. My carb count was based on the actual reported carbs and fiber grams right from the specific labels on the foods I buy. I always try to buy the lowest-carb version of what is there. Not all cheeses are the same carb count, for example. Some have no carbs at all. I'm with you on the nuts (actually 6 net carbs...3 per serving), and the salad (5 carbs...though I AM counting the dressing and greens). Add to this that I am still in ketosis! If I were consuming too many carbs, I wouldn't be able to sustain ketosis would I? And also, I didn't think I was still held to the same rules as induction since I have already "induced" low-carb processing in my body. I considered my first two weeks, as Dr. Atkins said, to be my induction. I lost 9 pounds during that phase. Even though I'm still targeting 20 grams of carbs per day, I am in week 7 officially this morning. So based on what has been published on this forum, I have been considering myself as in the OWL phase now.

Ken

Ken,
Since you are staying at 20g of carbs like as in induction, I assumed you were trying to follow *induction rules*. My bad. If you are in OWL, then you can certainly add whatever foods your carb count levels allows.

It's true when you get to a level of higher carbs, usually around 30-40, you will no longer consistently be in ketosis...but everyone is different. Add in the variables...time of day you test, amount of water you are drinking, and the amount of dietary fat you are consuming.

I just know I had the exact same experience that you are going through. What made the difference for me was journaling everything I ate, counting the carbs and the calories and fat gms. Stinks, I know.

Do what you need to do...journal, count calories in addition to the carbs, or even give thought to changing plans. After re-reading your above post, (#4), perhaps Atkins is not the right plan for you if you are really missing certain carbs like popcorn, pasta, breads. Perhaps South Beach might be a better fit, or CAD.
I have in fact tried both of those plans, and I was happy with them both.
But in the end, I have come full circle, and back to Atkins because it does so much for me...no heartburn, more energy, and the simplicity of it.

As for the difference in carb counts on labels vs fitday, personally I go with fitday or the USDA site. Companies can often times state no carbs, or less than 1 carb even if the food has 0.999g carb; I call that 1 carb...and I count it that way. Fractions, bits and pieces do add up.
If a product says no carbs or reduced carbs but has added sugar in the ingredients list, that pretty much raises my suspicion. One can't be to vigilent, IMO, yanno?

At any rate, I wish you much luck and good health on your weight loss journey.

S.

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Shelley
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Visit Kassie's Korner



Life deserves a treat now and again, but life also deserves being healthy[with required disipline] to make it worth living!

Ken,
I had lost 20 pounds at a steady rate and followed the OWL "carb additions" from the Atkins book, when I added nuts in I stopped losing. I had a special cup that I used so I knew I was only eating one ounce at a time. I didn't care that I had stopped losing at the time. I enjoyed the weight loss that I already had achieved and wore all of my old clothes from that weight.

I started losing weight again when I stopped eating nuts. Does this suck for me? Sure, but not really. I know that I don't gain when I'm eating nuts I just don't lose. So I eat them when I am comfortable with my losses.

I suggest that instead of quitting the program start tracking back to what you added at the time that you stalled. I'll bet you it was those danged
"tasty-as-all-get-out" NUTS. And if I'm right and it was the nuts don't cry over losing them for a while, your body has already let you know that you won't gain when you add them back somewhere in the future.

chesnut

I moved up the rungs of OWL by adding back Fage Greek yogurt one week, then strawberries the next. My carbs averaged about 25. I dropped from 208 to 201 in one week. I also avoided all soy & aspartame and was still able to drink my coffee and Splenda use did not affect me. I think there is something to be said to cautiously moving up the rungs of the OWL ladder.

Hi Ken~

Just wanted to say I hope you don't throw in the towel on LC yet. It really is a healthy and easy woe.

One suggestion would be to up your veggie intake. I've found that the extra carbs from veggies don't affect my losses, where extra carbs from cheese, nuts and other non-veggie carbs can.

The other question - how's your exercise routine? That's the other key for me. When I eat clean and exercise regularly, I see regular drops on the scale and tape measure. That's when I'm doing my best, with the least or shortest stalls.

Just some suggestions. Let us know how you're doing. Hang in there!

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Mada
221.6/193.8 <--- ONEderland! /sz 8

Thanks for all the advice. I have not quit the diet yet. But I also have not gone near a scale since my last post. I just went on a vacation to Lake Tahoe for a wedding. I tried really hard to stay on plan. There were a few times where my only realistic choices were to have some carbs or make everyone's life around me a misery. But I always kept it to a bare minimum. I've been back for 3 days and have stayed strictly on plan since then.

Chesnut, I was stuck at minus 9 pounds long before I started eating nuts. So I really don't think that was it. But it is worth a try to go off them for a few days. Who knows. I plan to weigh myself for the first time in about a week and a half tomorrow. Anyone want to wager what the scale will tell me? I'd bet large sums of money it will say 206.

Sigh.

Ken

nuts are a common source of slowdowns, because, while nutritous, they are very calorie-dense. same thing with cream cheese, cheese, heavy cream, and so on. as you get down to the last 25 pounds or so, you may actually have to be more aware of that than you did at first. also, lc bread and tortillas slow some down. if you find that you're sticking at a particular weight for a long time, these are areas you can look. and and mada suggested, excerise can sometimes help kickstart things again, as well as increasing water. (as i recall, you've said you down the stuff already like there's no tomorrow, though.)

anyway, a few thoughts. if you find you're staying at the same place, you may want to post a thread with menus. the folks around here are great about finding trouble areas.

keep the faith, brother.

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Fat Baggage- Is Yours Packed?

Ken,
Forgive me if I have missed this info previously posted, but
1) How much left do you have to lose (and how much did you to start)?
2) What kind/how much exercise are you doing?
3) How much (EXACTLY) water are you drinking each day?

Finally, I wrote this article about 3 years ago, but I still go back from time to time to read it and I hope it helps you, too...
Stall Power!

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Summer

The closer you get to goal weight, the slower your losses are. And those last few pounds you should take off really slowly.

You don't know what a stall is until you've looked at the same 5 lbs, gaining, losing, gaining, losing, for over a year. That's a real stall! Ah, to be young and have the fat just melt off! LOL!

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Nita