I started on the Atkins plan on July 3, 2003. A week before that, I had a blood profile done. I had 257 total cholesterol, with 193 LDL and 46 HDL. Last week I had it done again, and now it's 279 total, 200 LDL, and 60 HDL, 113 Triglycerides.

The Dr. says if it doesn't go down in another 3 months, we'll probably have to start meds. My blood pressure is good 120/80, and I'm approaching my goal weight.

I've been thinking about going in a slightly different direction than Atkins, preferably one that might help me control the cholesterol. (I must admit I've enjoyed the bacon and eggs and butter)

Any thoughts, suggestions?

thanks

July 03, 2003
202/176/170

I would get retested in 3 months and were you fasting for the test?

To get to the rainbow you must first pass through the rain!

Yeah John, those total cholesterol numbers are too high. Rats.

A few thoughts:

Some people just plain have high cholesterol no matter what they do. Does this condition run in your family?

Maybe you haven't been lcing long enough yet to reap the full benefit - for some people, it seems to take 6 months or so. If that's
the case for you, you'll find out when you go back in another 3 months.

It's always possible you got a bad test, but given that your numbers were high 10 weeks months ago too, that's probably not it.

I presume you don't smoke, and I know you exercise regularly. As you suggest, perhaps it would be good idea for you to steer your diet away from processed meats and high levels of saturated fats. (I am convinced there is no relationship whatsoever between eating eggs and having high cholesterol, but I guess that's another topic.)

Your HDL is decent, and your triglycerides aren't really bad, although they could be lower. Did they tell you what your ratio is? The lower the better on that, too. (Sorry, I don't know the formula for calculating it).

The dietary recommendations I'm aware of for improving the lipid profile numbers include:

- eating lots of cold-water fish (for the omega 3 & 6 essential fatty acids)
- getting plenty of fiber (at least 25g daily)
- using olive oil
- and drinking moderate amounts of red wine (yay!).

There is increasing evidence that flax oil and fish oil supplements are beneficial too.

I know these numbers were disappointing to you, and I don't blame you for wanting to stay off the meds if at all possible. If it turns out that you do need them, then thank heaven for them, but hopefully another few months of living the good life will set you free!

Your weight is almost ideal and your blood pressure is great, so you did get some good news mixed in. And of course you have GOT to be better off overall than you were at >200 pounds, no matter what the lipid profile says.

You appear to be resolved to focus on this aspect over the next few months and see what happens with the numbers. Sounds like a good plan to me. Best wishes!

Sky
186/144/under 150

Hi Junie - I did fast for the recommended 12 hours before the test, but not any longer than that.

sky - thanks for the good advice. Yes, high cholesterol runs in the family. Both parents have been on meds for almost 35 years. Both are in their 80s now! I'm probably low on the fiber intake (other than bouts of psyllium husks!) I'm taking fish, flax, and borage oil supplements.

I guess I'll have to ask the Dr. what the ratios are. I'll ask to have them mail me a copy.

I am going to do my best to make the cholesterol level better, although, you're right about it being a good thing that meds are there if we need them (look at my parents).

I'm gonna continue exercising, kick up the cardio workouts a notch.

This ties in so well with the "obsession with numbers" thread I put out yesterday. I feel better than I have in years, but I'm stressing about some dang numbers out of a black box!

Hey, YOUR numbers look fantastic! Have you been at your maintenance level a long time?

all the best

John

July 03, 2003
202/176/170

Hey John,
My total cholesterol as well as the HDL and LDL numbers also went up after starting LC. The triglycerides went down. My choleterol had never been high, but after a year on LC were borderline high. I freaked out. Then, I dug out all my low-carb books and started reading, and according to the Eades of Protein Power, sometimes the LDL will go up on LC diets, but it is a different type of LDL. They say it is "fluffy" and will not clog arteries. They say the real indicator of being at risk for heart attacks is the HDL and triglyceride ratio (divide the triglyceride by the HDL) A ratio of 5 is the break point. Over 5 you're at risk,and the higher over 5 the ratio is, the greater the risk. Under 5 is good. You can read all about this in "The Protein Power Life Plan", Chapter 4.

According to my calculations, your ratio is 1.83. I don't think I'd even consider the meds if I were you.

Pre LC my husband's ratio was 60!!! After a year on LC it was down to 6. Still a little high, but so much better! My ratio is 1.25. I don't think I need to worry about a heart attack.

John,

'Couple of things to keep in mind here.
1. During the earlier stages of this way of eating, you are burning fat. To burn the fat, you have to mobilize those lipid stores and the only way to "move them around" is the circulatory system. (More lipids in your blood.)

2. Most people find that their lipid profile continues to improve, the longer they are eating low carb, and your profile DOES show some improvements.

3. Increasingly, md's are coming to understand that the total cholesterol levels are fairly useless as a predictive tool. TOTAL/HDL ratio, triglyceride levels (as well as homocystine and C-reactive protein levels) are more predictive of cardio risk than total cholesteral numbers alone.


BTW, Your HDL to TOTAL ratio is actually 4.6. You get the ratio by dividing your total cholesterol level by your HDL level. This is a significant reduction from your previous ratio of 5.6. (4 or under is considered very good.)

While your total cholesterol has increased something on the order of 9%, your ratio decreased by nearly 20%.

Also, you don't mention what your previous triglycerides were. I'd be willing to bet that there was a significant reduction there, since nearly everyone on this way of eating gets a reduction there and triglyceride levels are, in some ways, more important than total cholesterol numbers.

I'm with Junie here. Consider just chilling, and testing again in 3 months. Then look at the trend - and not just the total cholesterol numbers.

Even if your cholesterol does not become "sterling", if the ratios continue to improve, do some serious research on the statin drugs which are given to lower cholesterol, particularly their effects on the liver. Then you can balance the relative risk factors of taking versus not taking this class of drugs for the rest of your life.

Just some food for thought.

Maggie
5'1" ~~ Atkins since '98 (160)/Maintaining nicely (110) ~~ Redhead until further notice!

John:

Yeah, I've been there. My cholesterol levels were too high and the Doc put me on a very low dose of Lipitor and I took it for awhile and then just stopped. My numbers were GREAT while I was taking it, and then they weren't again when I stopped.

So, I continue taking it each day and now my numbers are very good again:

LDL = 114
HDL = 61
VLDL = 12
TOTAL = 187
Triglycerides = 58
ratio of 3.0

The Doc was very pleased and put my on Crestor (a better Rx) at a lower dosage.

Sometimes it's just best to get some help from the meds. I didn't wanna admit that, but it's true. I also take thyroid meds of 150mcg's daily and have had since I was 8 years old.

By the way, your ratio is 4.6. Take your total and divide by HDL to get that number. Anything over 5 is considered not good, so you're still under the line.

My two cents...

April
352 / 204 / 180
5'10", large frame, size 13 shoe
www.geocities.com/aprilreinhardt

John
See it's not as bad as you thought.

Saturated fats will raise overall cholesterol but will raise HDL and LDL usually benefitting the ldl/hdl ratio. If you want to get your doctor to keep you off meds, replace some of your saturated fats with monounsaturated fats.
so olive oil, avocados etc. Have the bacon with the eggs as a once a week treat for a while. But eat eggs as often as you please (or they please you). This has nothing to do with anything other than pleasing your doctor.
Rob

Rob

Thanks to everybody for taking the time to supply some great information. Of course, you know I OBSESS about numbers... I reread Atkins' DANDR re: high cholesterol. He states that if your cholesterol has remained high, but you're happy with the weight loss and general fitness you've achieved, then try some vitamin supplements for a period. He has some listed in the book. Lecithin granules, and some other things are mentioned.

I'm going to kick up the cardio workouts a bit, possibly add a supplement, and see how it goes in 3 months.

This place is great!

July 03, 2003
202/175.5/170

You might also try reading Dr. Schwarzbein's "The Schwarzbein Principle". I seem to recall that she had a very good chapter or 2 on cholesterol. Easy reading.

Steve
235/185/175??
Since 02/03
Don't believe in miracles, Depend on them.

Protein Power FAQ

I found this info about the triglceride/LDL ratio on the protein power web site.

Dear God,
Your will. Nothing more. Nothing less. Nothing else.
Amen

>>I'm taking fish, flax, and borage oil supplements.<<

_The Omega Solution_ and my opthamologist both say there are studies that indicate the gel capsules intefer with the absorption of the essential fatty acids (EFAs).

So, you may get more benefit from buying a bottle of flax oil and mixing it with your salad dressing. Or, add flaxseed meal to your shakes. Similarly you can eat more salmon and tuna (or take caster oil, ick!). You should get more benefit from the EFAs if you get them in the form of food.

BTW, I'm right there with you on the high cholestrol thing. I just found out my total cholestrol is 282. I was feeling a bit gloomy about it, but I guess it's not really ~that~ bad. The HDL is 64 (very good) and the LDL is 199 (rather high), while the triglicerides are 95 (great). So, despite the high total, I think it's basically okay.

~~~Teelbee

174 (Mar. 2002, highest weight), 164 (Jan. 2003, begin LC)
164/135/137-134
remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic

This is proven to work. Niacin (vitamin B3), 1000 mg a day. It will give you a flush and make you feel itchy right after you take it, but drink some water. The flush duration will reduce eventually as you build up a resistance to it. Do not get Niacinamide. NiacinaMIDE is another form of B3 that doesn't have the same cholesterol-lowering effect.

***********************
"Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to. Then on the way out, slam the door."

Hey John,

I just posted to Lou that he/she should eat flaxomeal cereal for breakfast, maybe that would help you too. Fiber is one of the BEST ways to get cholesterol levels lowered. HTH.



Barb
Atkins-3/14/03
174/149.4/135
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Thanks for the new tips, Barb, Cyndi, Teelbee, Dr. I.

I feel better about the totals, I'm 99% sure I won't do meds whatever the good Dr. tells me. I think I'll start doing psyllium husks daily, and look into getting non-capsule forms of the oils.

John

July 03, 2003
202/174.5/170