What would you? Went on Akins plan 6/24/02 weight was 152 I am 5'2 60 yrs old. Today weighed in at 139 want to go to 125 or 130 feel great after heart surgery 1/7/02 had 5 by-passes because of family history. Had no warning before surgery. Doctor put me on blood pressure med. and a bata blocker that is working well. Wanted to put me on Statin med. after 8/6/03 blood work but I did not want to go that route wanted to control it with diet tried their "NO FAT AT All" and it did not work for me and was real depressed. After taking my life back June 24th I have been a new person and really enjoying life.

Now here is where I am yesterday got second blood work results and will see doctor 11/18 want to be able to stay on LC. If I have to go on the Statin drug will it effect the Akins plan and would you stay on it or go to SB Diet that has lower fats?

Here are the results, which had an increase:
8/06/03 - Cholesterol - Total 212
Triglycerides - 75
HDL - 60
LDL - 137
11/07/03 - Cholesterol - Total 232
Trglycrides - 78
HDL - 67
LDL - 149
Thanks for your in put. I want to be responsible and do what is best for me. I feel so much better since L-Carbing no more reflux, no hunger don't have to exercise so much will power like I did when counting calories or fats. I want to be able to prove this Akins diet to my doctor that it does work!!
Gratefully!
Maryd/bea

BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO LIVE LIFE WITH JOY

Please look this over and give me your thoughts. It is important to me.
Mary

BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO LIVE LIFE WITH JOY

MaryD - your doctor is probably basing his recommendation on risk assessments based on your LDL number, the fact that you have had bypass surgery and that you have hypertension. I am not a doctor, but what I have read indicates that risk factors like yours are often prime considerations for drug therapy. Have you talked to your doctor about your concerns? You may be one of those people (like my dad) with genetically driven high cholesterol that cannot be controlled by diet. If that's the case, then drug therapy may be the only choice for you (and you may be able to stick with a low carb diet). If you haven't already, check out the National Health Institutes' third report of the National Cholesterol Education Program. You may find many of the answers you are seeking.

Good luck.

Jen
175/130/120

My hubby has high cholesterol that won't budge with diet exercise. His fathers is also high and so is his 24 yr old sons. The doctor has said it's genetics and he has to take drugs for it. The only drug that works for him is not a formulary drug with our insurance so it cost us $60 a month, the same is true for my insulin.His cholesterol has really improved on the new meds though so he's staying on them.

Thank you so much for this valuable information. I am feeling so encouraged!!!
I think the worst thing is if I have to go another route and have to leave you wonderful friends. That is important to me and I know to others.
Thanks again!
Mary

BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO LIVE LIFE WITH JOY

Sounds like sound advise. I would talk to Doc & tell him my concerns. I'm 59 & I take a Beta Blocker as well. According to Atkins, that can make losses more difficult too. It seems like my weight loss has been at a snails pace, but as long as the trend is down, we'll get there. Good luck!

Betty
265/203/155
Started 7/15/02

Mary,

Please get yourself a copy of Protein Power by the Eades (both MD's) There is a HUGE chapter on heart disease and cholesterol. It is very interesting reading. There might be some clues in there that you or your doctor haven't thought about. What is the ratio of your LDL/HDL. If it is below 3 you should be alright. Doctors don't always know what the numbers ACTUALLY mean. The book explains it in depth and so it makes sense. Best of luck to you. Keep us posted.

I just did some figuring. Your HDL to Total Cholesterol is in the Excellent range <4 (3.46) (divide total by HDL) and your LDL/HDL ratio is FANTASTIC!!!! 2.22 (desired is <3) (divide LDL by HDL) Does your doctor know about this kind of stuff, the ratio thing I mean????????



Barb
Atkins-3/14/03
174/146/135
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

[This message was edited by Barb Keith on 11-13-03 at 03:45 PM.]

One more thing you may not have considered. My FIL also has heart problems and weight problems.

Where are the majority of your carbs coming from? My FIL went mostly with cheeses and carby meat. His numbers went up too.

I would also talk to the doctor about it. If your doc is over the top against low carb then you should have a frank talk about how it has helped you and that if he can't see past his bias that maybe you should see a different doctor. I'm not saying low carb will always be the best thing for you, but you can't trust a person to decide if they already believe it's bad.

Just my 2 cents
Michelle

Michelle
287/198, 6/2002 - 6/2003
231/226, 9/1/2003 - 9/9/2003

Mary~

I really feel for you on this one. There is so much conflicting information out there about what causes heart disease and how to treat it that it can be quite overwhelming. It seems that the more you learn, the more confusing it gets, and it's darn near impossible to feel very confident about the course you choose. If you do an internet search for "statin drugs", you will find several credible and convincing articles extolling the virtues of these drugs. Keep looking, and you'll find several credible and convincing articles stating just the opposite - that statin drugs are a harmful scam, and there is no evidence they do anything at all to help people with heart disease.

I am not a doctor, and would not presume to say that yours isn't keeping up with the latest studies, but there is some pretty compelling evidence indicating that the ratio of HDL to total cholesterol is much more important than the total number. A ratio of under 4 is desirable; under 3 is very good. Your ratio was 3.53 in August, and is 3.46 now, which is actually a slight improvement. Many doctors would find this an acceptable range, especially since your weight and blood pressure are normal. But because of the extensive cardiac impairment you had, it may be that "normal" isn't good enough for you; that your ratio needs to be even better. Your coronary arteries apparently do have a tendency to become narrowed, so it's especially important to fend off any sticky stuff that might be floating around in there. It appears that low-carbing may not be getting the numbers down as far or as fast as your doctor would like. Perhaps you could do a trial period on whatever drug he prescribes and see what happens. Sometimes people are able to get the numbers in line with drugs and then keep them there with diet. If you end up needing to be on the drugs longer term, then I'd suggest you read only the positive articles - there are lots of them!

The unfortunate fact is that some people with "ideal" cholesterol readings have heart disease, and some people with "terrible" cholesterol levels do not. Some people who eat lots of saturated fat get heart disease, and so do some Vegetarians. Sumo wrestlers have heart attacks, and so do ballerinas. With all the research that's been done and all the advancements in modern medicine, there are really only three undisputed truths when it comes to heart disease:

1) Genetics matter
2) Smoking is bad
3) Exercise is good

The rest of it, in my opinion, is a crap shoot.
Again, I'm not a doctor, but since you feel so good eating low-carb and your lipid profile has not worsened, I'd say keep it up. It's relatively easy to cut down on saturated fat and still follow a low-carb plan, and that would probably be a good thing. And no harm in trying to increase your "good" cholesterol by exercising regularly, getting plenty of fiber in your diet, eating lots of fish and/or taking Omega 3/6 supplements, and drinking moderate amounts of red wine (YAY!). There is no inherent reason you can't combine low-carb and Liptor (or whatever).

If it were me, I would stay low carb, watch the saturated fat, and if my doctor really thought it was important to get my numbers down faster, I'd try the drugs. But I would also make an appointment with another cardiologist for a complete review of the whole situation. I'm not saying to dump your current doc, just to have the overall picture reviewed with a fresh eye. Have them take a look at all your lab tests, your surgical report, your EKGS and echos, everything, and see what they would recommend for you. After all, this whole scenario developed rather suddenly, and it can't hurt to double-check everything now that the shock has worn off. Maybe the second doctor will also recommend a statin drug, and then you'll feel more confident that it's the right thing for you to do. Or the new doctor might have a whole different philosphy about what to do from here. Either way, it will give you more information and hopefully help you see your path more clearly.

Remember too, that you don't have to make a life-long decision about this right this minute. You can seek some other opinions, explore your options, keep gathering information, keep learning. You can try the drugs for 6 months and see what happens, you can give the low-carb/lower fat approach a try, and you can change your mind about any of it at any time. I know it's tempting to want to make a definitive decision about this and have it be "over with", to make your choice and commit to it so you can say "THERE, I've taken care of that", and cross it off your list. But it doesn't work that way, my dear...our health and our hearts need constant attention. All we can do is make the best choices we know how to make each day, and place the rest in larger hands.


Hang in there,
Sky
Atkins since 8/02
186/144/under 150

Thanks to Barb K from my husband and I we are going to take our Protein Power and a copy of this post to my doctor next week. I looked at my paper and it did say my Total Chol/HDL Ratio is 3.4 and the limit is 0.0 - 5.0. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Blessing to all of you made my day. Now I can go in for my visit and will be ready. I'm still encouraged!
God Bless!
Mary

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."

Well.... Sky while I was posting my last reply yours came in. You have done your homework!!! And seems like you have known me all my life. Your statement:

"I know it's tempting to want to make a definitive decision about this and have it be "over with", to make your choice and commit to it so you can say "THERE, I've taken care of that", and cross it off your list. But it doesn't work that way, my dear...our health and our hearts need constant attention. All we can do is make the best choices we know how to make each day, and place the rest in larger hands."

HAS GOT MY NAME ALL OVER IT! How can I thank you enough. Hope a very big blessing comes you way!!!
Mary

PS when I go into my doctor's office with all this info. he will not know me. I feel powerful and I am 13 pounds lighter and will look good too!

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."

Mary,

I can tell you feel empowered. I always recommend people self-educate. Knowledge IS power. My RN nurse sister told me just last weekend at dinner that this WOL is dangerous. We were eating: asparagus, cauliflower, broccoli, salad, creamed cukes and chicken. I flipped. I said, "What is dangerous about this meal??????" She sheepishly said, "Too much protein." I had a HALF of a chicken breast. How in the world is THAT too much protein???? She had no come back!!! She is only going by what she's heard, has NOT researched this WOL and therefore falls for the malarchy she hears. I have EDUCATED myself and that's more than I can say for SOME doctors. Gather your resources, arm yourself with knowledge and go in there full of confidence!!!!!



Barb
Atkins-3/14/03
174/146/135
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Just stopping in to say that Barb K. and Sky are right on, IMHO.

As I posted elsewhere, the doctors I know are much more interested in the tryglyceride level and the Total/HDL ratio (which our local hospital now labels as "your risk ratio" as reflective of the current state of understanding) than they are with the total cholesterol number. Yours are both very good.

I think a good doctor is comfortable with being a contribuing partner to, rather than a director of, of his/her patient's health. The more the patient knows, the more productive the partnership.

Maggie
5'1" ~~ Atkins since '98 (160+)
Maintaining nicely (110 +/-)
~~ Redhead until further notice!

I got this from anothet site.



The enclosed three paragraphs, which I wrote last week for the Weston A Price Foundation website to add to the "Oiling of America" article tells how the 200 mg/dl cutoff for serum cholesterol was decided back in 1984.

Mary Enig, PhD

Gary Taubes, a staff writer for Science wrote an article called "The Soft Science of Dietary Fat" for the 30 March 2001 issue of Science. He had reviewed all the available information on the demonization of dietary fat and the cholesterol issues and listened to the tapes of the 1984 Cholesterol Consensus Conference. He presented the graph which showed quite clearly that serum cholesterol levels of 200 mg/dl to 240 mg/dl were definitely in the normal cholesterol range for which there was no increased risk of heart mortality in males and even above 240 mg/dl there was a decrease in risk for women.

But what Gary Taubes didn't know was that there was a political decision being made on the floor of the NIH (Building 10) Mazur Auditorium that day in December 1984. The decision would allow the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute (NHLBI) to have yet another even more extensive long-term "trial" to work on. The NHLBI could not get more money from Congress for more large trials such as the MRFIT or LRC and they were developing the National Cholesterol Education Program. With the cutoff number at the lower end of the normal range (200 mg/dl), they could include all of the healthy normal citizens in the range that would need treatment with diet, and since the diet would never work to permanently lower those normal levels (eg, 200 mg/dl to 240 or 260 mg/dl) to below 200 mg/dl, they could recommend that all these people should go onto cholesterol-lowering medications.

The three men who were heading the NHLBI (Cleeman, Lenfant, and Rifkin) were standing together in the Mazur Auditorium just before the Cholesterol Consensus Conference began. They were discussing the cutoff level of serum cholesterol to put into the consensus report. One said to the other two, "but we can't have the cutoff at 240 [mg/dl]; it has to be at 200 [mg/dl] or we won't have enough people to test." Several of us from the University of Maryland Department of Chemistry Lipids Research Group were standing directly behind them and within clear earshot. We looked at each other and of course were not surprised when the final numbers came out. This small chat did not get onto the tapes that Taubes reviewed.

BigLez

If you have never made a mistake then you've done nothing

To All,
My husband is standing here behind me as we are reading these comments and he just reminded me of my Cardio. Doc's comment at my last visit. My husband said since this sudden health issue has come in our life my wife and I will be researcing and getting information for the best discisions." His comment was, "that scares me". My husband's comment after reading these post is "we are not going to be control by the system any longer". We have always been "thinkers" and the system sometimes draws in "non-thinkers" we are really gaining a lot of insight and both feeling more excited than ever. He is for all this because he went on this WOE with me and has lost 33 lbs just this morning he got in a pair of 34 Levis. I haven't since those since 1980. He has tried all the diets and finally has gained victory over his appitite. He's sold!! Before this is all over I think I can teach how to best Care and Maintain your body and have the best life ever!
Thanks again to all of you. and Barb I was right on with your post last week about your sister's visit. That got me all fired up and ready to live today.
Mary

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."